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Project Oak: Meaningful control of data in distributed systems

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Re: Project Oak: Meaningful control of data in distributed systems

#31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rust's compiler can prevent data races, for example. (It forbids mutation in the presence of aliasing, which is the root of it.)

should be mentioned that Go has optional flags already built in to the compiler for detection of data races.

the race detector ( -race ) only detects races that actually occur. If they don't happen, then it doesn't detect them.

Re: Project Oak: Meaningful control of data in distributed systems

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But can it deliver ads?

It’s a google project, that’s probably the first use case they considered

Another sealed computing use case that is public: https://developer.android.com/about/versions/pie/security/ck...

And this one: https://security.googleblog.com/2022/10/SecurityofPasskeysin...

I've been fortunate to be paid by Google to hide user data from Google since 2016. Not many companies would shell out anything for this sort of privacy feature.

As for the Oak stack, they win the race. It is the only stack that currently provides full hardware attestation covering 100% of the code running in the enclave, and 100% of it is open-source. There are other good efforts, such as CoCo containers with their Key Broker, but so far they only cover the initial boot firmware, not the full set of software running inside the enclave.

Kudos to the Oak team!

Re: Project Oak: Meaningful control of data in distributed systems

#33

The lede is a little buried in that README [1]: ## Sealed Computing A canonical use of Oak is to build privacy-preserving sealed computing applications. In a sealed computing application, a node (usually a client device) sends data to an enclave application (usually a server), which processes data without the service provider hosting the enclave application being able to see the inputs, outputs, or side effects of th…

Honestly, I think it will be used for the reverse (and unfortunately more evil) - Google wants to be able to control YOUR machine's compute environment for things like playing back of DRM'd content. They want a chain of trust that your browser cannot be modified to do things like block ads.

Re: Project Oak: Meaningful control of data in distributed systems

#34
post #6

This seem to be Google's response to Apple private cloud compute [1]? [1] https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/

Except the other way around.

Except that Apple actually uses this privacy stuff. Is Project Oak used by Android or Pixel?

Re: Project Oak: Meaningful control of data in distributed systems

#36
post #13

A bit surprised that it’s written in rust, rather than Go. I suppose rust can take advantage of more low level apis, plus no overhead of garbage collection. edit: love that the community is not silo’d into a proprietary chat platform as well: > We welcome contributors! To join our community, we recommend joining the mailing list. - https://github.com/project-oak/oak?tab=readme-ov-file#gettin... I really wish more ope…

The hardware features used for this are Intel and AMD CPU extensions: they're writing a microvm to run inside special "enclave" virtual machines. Go is a fine language but it's not really intended for this sort of work. Rust is a natural fit for this work: you can write low level drivers and also ensure a number of safety properties.

Re: Project Oak: Meaningful control of data in distributed systems

#37

The lede is a little buried in that README [1]: ## Sealed Computing A canonical use of Oak is to build privacy-preserving sealed computing applications. In a sealed computing application, a node (usually a client device) sends data to an enclave application (usually a server), which processes data without the service provider hosting the enclave application being able to see the inputs, outputs, or side effects of th…

[deleted]

Re: Project Oak: Meaningful control of data in distributed systems

#39

The lede is a little buried in that README [1]: ## Sealed Computing A canonical use of Oak is to build privacy-preserving sealed computing applications. In a sealed computing application, a node (usually a client device) sends data to an enclave application (usually a server), which processes data without the service provider hosting the enclave application being able to see the inputs, outputs, or side effects of th…

Sounds like Apple’s Private Cloud Compute: https://security.apple.com/blog/private-cloud-compute/

> When on-device computation with Apple devices such as iPhone and Mac is possible, the security and privacy advantages are clear: users control their own devices, researchers can inspect both hardware and software, runtime transparency is cryptographically assured through Secure Boot, and Apple retains no privileged access

Waitasec - ZOOM AND ENHANCE!

> users control their own devices

I’ll believe that when Apple lets me downgrade my iOS version.

Re: Project Oak: Meaningful control of data in distributed systems

#40
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A bit surprised that it’s written in rust, rather than Go. I suppose rust can take advantage of more low level apis, plus no overhead of garbage collection. It’s security-focused technology. Rust has huge advantages over Go in this area.

> Rust has huge advantages over Go in this area. Could you name some advantages? I would agree Rust has huge advantages compared to C/C++, and Rust also has a much bigger presence in the "security space". But I would say that's more because of Rust's lack of GC, smaller footprint which works in embedded systems etc. I guess you could say that Rust's type system being more expressive might eliminate certain classes of…

> But "huge advantages"?

They don't call null/nil the billion dollar mistake for nothing.

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