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Transponder Landing System enables precision approaches at McMurdo in Antarctica

flightradar24.com

31–40 of 42 posts

Re: Transponder Landing System enables precision approaches at McMurdo in Antarctica

#31

Landing at McMurdo Station seems a lot like landing on a giant, slow-moving aircraft carrier. I wonder how similar their ILS is to the ILS used on navy aircraft carriers?

The glacier moves orders of magnitude slower than an aircraft carrier does, so I doubt that the TLS used does any comparable automatic adjustments. It's probably more than enough to periodically survey the runway and input that data manually.

Re: Transponder Landing System enables precision approaches at McMurdo in Antarctica

#32
post #28

Wow that’s badass. It’s tempting to argue that a GPS based RNAV approach could have similar performance but this has several advantages: The ground based equipment dictates approach path with no updates to onboard approach databases on aircraft needed. RNAV can’t do curved approaches on a glide slope as far as I know. ILS minimums are generally slightly lower than LPV which is the RNAV approach type with lowest minim…

I would honestly not be surprised if pure GPS approaches were discontinued in the near future, giving all the spoofing incidents recently, and the shocking vulnerability of avionics systems to them. (I would have expected the GPS/INS to reject highly unplausible GPS signals in favor of the IRS, and huge clock deviations in favor of a simple internal quartz oscillator, but apparently neither is the the case.) TLS seem…

It would help if RTK was widely deployed, especially on cell phone towers.

Re: Transponder Landing System enables precision approaches at McMurdo in Antarctica

#33
post #24

Unsurprisingly, the challenges of getting to, living in, and managing infrastructure in Antarctica is a frequent theme of posts shared here. Some previous discussions of note: * How to Operate an Airport in Antarctica (also via flightradar24.com): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26340384 (68 comments) * Nuclear Power at McMurdo Station, Antarctica: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27549484 (192 comments) And…

Sadly, brr.fyi is done with the Antarctica stint and currently looking for another job.

I’m sure he won’t find it difficult to land another interesting job. I once emailed him and got a reply from the Antartica! Super cool.

Re: Transponder Landing System enables precision approaches at McMurdo in Antarctica

#34
post #30
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying over north pole became quite popular due to great circle routes going that way. use of GPS in civilian aviation actually came from compass getting confused during polar flight resulting in heading reversal. GPS satellites also supported polar operations from the start as the critical user needed flights over north pole. (this is one of those cases where typical map projections confuse people). That said, magne…

> use of GPS in civilian aviation actually came from compass getting confused during polar flight resulting in heading reversal Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression that INS-based navigation was much more precise than for that to have been an issue by the time GPS became available to civil aviation.

While GPS was apparently always planned to be provided for civilian navigation, Korean Air Flight 007 being shot down due to error in navigating over north pole led to explicit mention by White House:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007#Af....

Re: Transponder Landing System enables precision approaches at McMurdo in Antarctica

#36
post #34
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> use of GPS in civilian aviation actually came from compass getting confused during polar flight resulting in heading reversal Do you have a source for that? I was under the impression that INS-based navigation was much more precise than for that to have been an issue by the time GPS became available to civil aviation.

While GPS was apparently always planned to be provided for civilian navigation, Korean Air Flight 007 being shot down due to error in navigating over north pole led to explicit mention by White House: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007#Af... .

KAL007 was an usage error of the INS mode of the aircraft's autopilot, though, which was itself working as designed (although that design was a bit of a footgun in retrospect).

The exact same error could have happened for a Pacific crossing near the equator. Magnetic aberration being larger near the poles had nothing to do with it.

Re: Transponder Landing System enables precision approaches at McMurdo in Antarctica

#37
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would honestly not be surprised if pure GPS approaches were discontinued in the near future, giving all the spoofing incidents recently, and the shocking vulnerability of avionics systems to them. (I would have expected the GPS/INS to reject highly unplausible GPS signals in favor of the IRS, and huge clock deviations in favor of a simple internal quartz oscillator, but apparently neither is the the case.) TLS seem…

It would help if RTK was widely deployed, especially on cell phone towers.

That already exists: GBAS is the aviation equivalent to RTK. It provides integrity monitoring and differential signals via VHF. It's better than WAAS, since it's ground-based, and accordingly significantly harder to drown out in a large area.

But neither WAAS nor GBAS are authenticated, so are ultimately both are spoofable.

Re: Transponder Landing System enables precision approaches at McMurdo in Antarctica

#39
post #15

Landing at McMurdo Station seems a lot like landing on a giant, slow-moving aircraft carrier. I wonder how similar their ILS is to the ILS used on navy aircraft carriers?

Aircraft carriers have two systems. The Instrument Carrier Landing System (ICLS) is basically just an upgraded version of the civilian ILS which they squashed down onto a ship. It broadcasts a beam of radio waves into the air and any aircraft can pick it up and follow the glide slope. There is also the Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS), which is roughly equivalent to this system. Radar receivers on the carrier…

Adding for flavor and context: The ACLS is colloquially referred to as the "magic carpet", and we are now decades in to the classic disagreement about pilot skills versus automation. It's just in this case the consequence is splattering into the stern of a ship.

Re: Transponder Landing System enables precision approaches at McMurdo in Antarctica

#40
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an experience! Can I ask your role in visiting?

Basically I work on experiments (balloons and in-ice) that are attempting to detect ultra high energy neutrinos interacting in ice sheets via radio.

This continues to be one of the cooler ongoing projects that produces significant, physical results. Good luck finding the special neutrinos!
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