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Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

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Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#31

Post by martinky24 »

bell-cot wrote: post #2

Rule of Thumb: Unless either (1) your family has been "in that line of work" for several decades, or (2) a Clearance is needed for long-term success in your chosen field, the grief & weirdness of getting & maintaining a Security Clearance is Just Not Worth It.

If you don't do drugs, don't commit felonies, and don't have a ton of foreign friends (particularly from a few key, problematic countries), it's really not _that_ bad. You have some more annual paperwork that you're paid to do, you might have some restrictions on certain international travel, but for many people, nothing of meaning really changes before/after getting one.

It's not for everyone, but for plenty it's not a huge burden. Even if their family hasn't been "in that line of work" for several decades.

And it unlocks the ability to work on certain things that simply don't exist elsewhere (no, not just weapons).

Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#32

Post by dgacmu »

girvo wrote: post #17
j_bum wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why’s that? I’m really not familiar with the ins and outs of clearance. Do you have ethical reasons? Or practical?

For myself it's somewhat ethical, and somewhat practical: there's no way I'd get cleared anyway, due to my history of hard drug addiction in my teens and early 20s. Despite being sober for... gosh, over a decade now, it's a moot point in that process.

You might be surprised. I have some friends who did a lot of drugs at one point or another in their life and ended up later holding a clearance. Addiction might be different, but I wouldn't let your past deter you from looking if there was an opportunity you really liked. The clearance process looks more at if you have a problem that can be exploited.

(Now, that said, holding a clearance can be a pain for other reasons already detailed in this thread. A lifetime ban on talking about some things can be an annoying cognitive burden to carry, also.)

Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#33

Post by walterbell »

greyface- wrote: post #3

Getting a security clearance comes with liability and potential downside that doesn't exist in the private sector. Some examples: * Restrictions and reporting requirements around international travel and contact with foreign nationals * Restrictions on discussing work with friends and family * Prohibition on cannabis use * Prohibition on reading publicly leaked secret documents (from the Snowden days: https://web.arc…

> Interns-to-be should consider carefully

The fictional on-off-boarding of TV series "Burn Notice" (2007-2013), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burn_Notice & https://burn-notice.djmed.net

Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#34

Post by CamperBob2 »

girvo wrote: post #17
j_bum wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why’s that? I’m really not familiar with the ins and outs of clearance. Do you have ethical reasons? Or practical?

For myself it's somewhat ethical, and somewhat practical: there's no way I'd get cleared anyway, due to my history of hard drug addiction in my teens and early 20s. Despite being sober for... gosh, over a decade now, it's a moot point in that process.

They don't really care about the drug use, as much as they care whether you're honest about it. If you tell them one thing but they hear something else when they interview your family and friends, that's a major issue.

What they want to see, above all else, is someone who can't be easily blackmailed. (Which is one reason why homosexuality was a dealbreaker as late as the 1970s.)

Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#35

Post by carom »

Narhem wrote: post #5
bell-cot wrote: post #2

Rule of Thumb: Unless either (1) your family has been "in that line of work" for several decades, or (2) a Clearance is needed for long-term success in your chosen field, the grief & weirdness of getting & maintaining a Security Clearance is Just Not Worth It.

The upside being having a security clearance is means almost always having a job available.

Very much this. The USA has a jobs program and it is the defense industry. You just have to not do drugs to participate.

Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#36

Post by walterbell »

Daniel Ellsberg giving advice to Henry Kissinger about security clearances, in 1968, from his book "Secrets", https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2010/02/daniel-ellsbe...

> You will deal with a person who doesn’t have those clearances only from the point of view of what you want him to believe and what impression you want him to go away with, since you’ll have to lie carefully to him about what you know. In effect, you will have to manipulate him. You’ll give up trying to assess what he has to say. The danger is, you’ll become something like a moron. You’ll become incapable of learning from most people in the world, no matter how much experience they may have in their particular areas that may be much greater than yours.

Full quote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36364006

HN ranking history for this thread: https://hnrankings.info/41238823

Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#37

Post by sidewndr46 »

j_bum wrote: post #7
buildsjets wrote: post #6

A job that requires a security clearance is not a job that I want to be doing, ever.

Why’s that? I’m really not familiar with the ins and outs of clearance. Do you have ethical reasons? Or practical?

This comment gives a pretty good account of why myself and others are not interested:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20556201#20557382

Being subjected to pseudoscientific security theater isn't really that appealing.

Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#38

Post by dang »

altairprime wrote: post #12

I think this submission title should be modified to: > Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students This addresses several issues with the headline as presented: - It’s capitalized appropriately for HN. - It clearly states that this is about students only , reducing the scope of the effort from the unstated framing: “all workers”. - It reflects the single-company focus of Palantir in the article, impro…

Ok, let's give that a try. Thanks!

Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#39

Post by jfoutz »

j_bum wrote: post #7
buildsjets wrote: post #6

A job that requires a security clearance is not a job that I want to be doing, ever.

Why’s that? I’m really not familiar with the ins and outs of clearance. Do you have ethical reasons? Or practical?

I bowed out of the process. I just couldn't quite figure out how to reconcile what was asked of me.

Don't be around people in possession of illegal drugs. Ok, well grandpa died and I know for sure his oxy is in his medicine cabinet. Grandma hasn't thrown that away. You're not really allowed to do that, ya know?

I understand why the rules are the way they are. I understand that they would not care about that situation. The FBI agent asked rather pointed questions about, am I the kind of person who follows the rules when no one is watching. I feel pretty comfortable saying I do. I feel pretty comfortable believing they do not.

There are plenty of smart hardworking people with clearances. I believe in them and I believe they're generally trustworthy, but are held to an impossible standard so they can be fired at any time. I get it, but I can't accept that, so I don't.

Also the the OPM breach was cool.

Re: Palantir’s accelerated security clearance plan for students

#40

Post by lukas099 »

jdmarble wrote: post #30
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should never submit an SF-86 before your first day of work. That is used to trick you into an interim clearance review that can lead to the job being revoked before you report for work. Once you're an official employee you can't be fired for denial of clearance, though an effort at constructive dismissal will likely ensue if they can't find an uncleared role for you.

Is there a law that prevents a company from firing you if you can't get a clearance? I've seen job postings with something like "the ability to acquire and hold a [Top] Secret security clearance is required for this position". Is this illegal or necessary to be able to fire someone because they couldn't get or lost their clearance?

I think companies can fire you for pretty much any reason (or no reason) in America, other than discrimination.
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