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NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

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Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#31

Post by akira2501 »

dotnet00 wrote: post #25
adamm255 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has SpaceX even been outside low earth orbit with anything meaningful?

If you mean human spaceflight, current Boeing has less experience flying humans to anywhere in space than SpaceX, let alone beyond low earth orbit. If you mean general spaceflight, SpaceX has launched more lunar and interplanetary payloads than Boeing has in the past decade or two. Boeing and its proponents love to talk about things like "spaceflight heritage", but none of that means anything when most if not all of…

It was Rockwell. It was always Rockwell. Boeing's heritage is that they bought it.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#32

Post by MR4D »

zo1 wrote: post #22
mananaysiempre wrote: post #10

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

[flagged]

That’s a Mike-drop type comment.

Agreed 100%.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#33

Post by School-Cotton »

akira2501 wrote: post #26
School-Cotton wrote: post #23

Does anyone actually seriously believe the U.S. will land a person on the moon in 2025? This is the country that takes decades to open a new subway station.

We're the only nation that has ever done it. It seems like unchecked graft is our current main problem. In the scope of all problems of returning people to the Moon this is both expected and the easiest to deal with.

> We're the only nation that has ever done it

The USA of the 1960s was very different from the one that exists today.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#34

Post by cqqxo4zV46cp »

akira2501 wrote: post #26
School-Cotton wrote: post #23

Does anyone actually seriously believe the U.S. will land a person on the moon in 2025? This is the country that takes decades to open a new subway station.

We're the only nation that has ever done it. It seems like unchecked graft is our current main problem. In the scope of all problems of returning people to the Moon this is both expected and the easiest to deal with.

What “the US” did 50+ years ago has absolutely no say in what “the US” can do now.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#35

Post by okanat »

akira2501 wrote: post #26
School-Cotton wrote: post #23

Does anyone actually seriously believe the U.S. will land a person on the moon in 2025? This is the country that takes decades to open a new subway station.

We're the only nation that has ever done it. It seems like unchecked graft is our current main problem. In the scope of all problems of returning people to the Moon this is both expected and the easiest to deal with.

When that was happening, the US was spending ungodly amount of money to show Soviets that they can take ~a nuke~ sorry people to the Moon and back.

Boeing, Lockheed etc. were still engineering oriented companies full of projects and management opportunities for innovative and risk-taking people. Starting with the Reagan era, they are now emptied out rent seekers full of car salesmen who look up to Jack Welch as a role model.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#37

Post by whatshisface »

zo1 wrote: post #22
mananaysiempre wrote: post #10

> During a visit to Michoud in 2023, for example, inspectors discovered that welding on a component of the SLS Core Stage 3 did not meet NASA standards. Per the report, unsatisfactory welding performed on a set of fuel tanks led directly to a seven-month delay in EUS completion. > “According to NASA officials, the welding issues arose due to Boeing’s inexperienced technicians and inadequate work order planning and su…

[flagged]

Good luck fighting it. The basic human desire to stay out of the line of fire, combined with feudal loyalty trees, lead to the collapse of the Soviet Union despite the great intelligence and administrative ability of the people at the top. The only economic difference between the state monopoly of the USSR and the many companies of the US is that here, it's legal to start new organizations, where in the USSR that would be prosecuted as anti-party activity. The "I have a family to feed" effect worked exactly the same way over there.

Reading about the history of socialism is eye-opening, specifically the period where it turned into a giant bureaucratic corporation that nobody was allowed to leave. That period started even before the mass murder toned down into "repression," so strong was the desire of individual managers to make it impossible to blame them for shortfalls relative to unrealizable plans.

For all that's been said about how different the east and west are, their fatal economic problems were nothing more alien than politics plus monopoly.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#38

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jtriangle wrote: post #3

Headline makes it sound like it's intentional, like Boeing knows the moon's haunted and wants to prevent people from going. Turns out they're just a giant company suckling on the teat of mommy government and have developed severe structural dysfunction that prevents them from effectively executing their plans.

> Turns out they're just a giant company

That should die. This is what happens when you allow monopolies, you can’t even let them die because you’ll be left with nothing.

They face no competition , and have no reason to improve

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#39

Post by ClumsyPilot »

PopePompus wrote: post #8

I don't know which is a better illustration of America's decline during my baby boomer lifetime - California High Speed Rail vs The Interstate Highway System or Artemis vs Apollo.

Good examples. The same comparison can be made in other western countries. When I point out there issues, people act like they were always there - but they weren’t. We used to build! Or they say it’s an inherent feature of democracy. Or they get angry.

Re: NASA investigation finds Boeing hindering Americans' return to moon

#40

Post by jaggederest »

grahamjameson wrote: post #15
jtriangle wrote: post #3

Headline makes it sound like it's intentional, like Boeing knows the moon's haunted and wants to prevent people from going. Turns out they're just a giant company suckling on the teat of mommy government and have developed severe structural dysfunction that prevents them from effectively executing their plans.

I do not know the details of their contracts, but assuming these are cost-plus contracts then it may be fair to equate structural dysfunction to intent.

The purpose of a system is what it does. Defense contractors extract money from the government, they are not here to enable space travel, they are here to move money from other people's pockets to their own. Any other actions are purely ancillary. And if they can get the money without delivering any result at all, why, they're fine with that.
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