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What I Saw in the Darién Gap

theatlantic.com

31–40 of 79 posts

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#31
post #27
post #25

When commenting about how this affects economic policy, immigration reform, military involvement, the causes of why we’re here, laws, title 42, migrants, justifications, and everything in between.. Remember that these are people just like you and I. They, like all humans, are seeking safety and stability for theirselves and families. The difference is that they were born, or ended up in, situations so dire they felt…

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>>I read/hear this argument a lot in Europe to justify mass immigration

I don't really see it as a justification of mass migration, but I do see it as an argument for treating migrants as human beings not cattle(or worse). There are enough politicians and people in general who think that the boats and people at the borders should be just shot at, that will stop them from coming surely /s. You see this sentiment everywhere, and the "Remember that these are people just like you and I" thought process is missing.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#32

Just in time for election season, these "human interest" pieces casually begin to appear, surreptitiously stoking anti-immigrant sentiments. The Darien Gap is still "wild" because not a lot of migrants crossed it historically. Most US migrants came from Mexico. However, migration from Mexico has greatly decreased in recent decades. The net flow is around zero. [1] That's because Mexico is no longer an undeveloped cou…

We have seen very similar story to Mexico in the EU. After 20 years of membership, Poland for example is a much more attractive place to live for Poles, so immigration from there to UK/DE/NL is massively down on where it was in, say, 2006. Same for Czech Rep, Slovenia, etc.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#33
post #25

When commenting about how this affects economic policy, immigration reform, military involvement, the causes of why we’re here, laws, title 42, migrants, justifications, and everything in between.. Remember that these are people just like you and I. They, like all humans, are seeking safety and stability for theirselves and families. The difference is that they were born, or ended up in, situations so dire they felt…

I understand what you're saying, I was particularly moved by the story of the Vietnamese woman who lost her son crossing a river. It's heartbreaking.

For some of these people it's better odds. Particularly I'm sympathetic to people living in places like Venezuela or central Africa. But for the rest, people from places like Vietnam or China or Chile, their situations are most certainly not worth the risk. They were either sold propaganda that it was easy, or they are risking their family's lives irresponsibly for the prospect of financial gain on the idea that they can become sensationally rich in the US. I've personally known people from both of those sets, and I've been to some places in the world (and not as a military person or something like that) and seen things about as horrendous as are outlined in this article.

Losing your job during covid is not a solid motivator for a rational person to decide to do this. It takes intense desperation, delusion about the danger, or the idea that it will be incredibly worth the risk. Only people in the first circumstance can justify doing something like this when it's all said and done. The rest, they'll be traumatized in the best case scenario and then wind up in the same situation they were in back home, living in crime riddled ghettos paying too much in rent and working dead end shit jobs to barely scrape by. For many that's a worse existence than they left. There's a siren on the shores of the US, and it's song is "the land of opportunity." I've had people tell me that they literally believed the streets here were paved in gold until they arrived. The truth is, in most of the countries where these people come from, day to day life is pretty comparable, and your chances of hitting it big are about the same.

The only real benefit to those but the truly desperate is arbitraging the labor markets between countries using remittances. You can send money home to your family and they can move up and then when they're set you can return and have a higher class life. I don't believe it's moral to risk the lives of your small children for something like that.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#34
post #27
post #25

When commenting about how this affects economic policy, immigration reform, military involvement, the causes of why we’re here, laws, title 42, migrants, justifications, and everything in between.. Remember that these are people just like you and I. They, like all humans, are seeking safety and stability for theirselves and families. The difference is that they were born, or ended up in, situations so dire they felt…

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Hi OP here - this is not an argument for or against anything. Rather just a reminder that whichever side you are on, or whatever you are advocating for, just to remember we are talking about humans. That’s the only point I was making.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these "human interest" pieces casually begin to appear, surreptitiously stoking anti-immigrant sentiments You don't usually see complaints about the right-wing bias of The Atlantic ...

Huh, I see it quite frequently. In particular I see references to the anti-Palestinian bias with suggestions that the fact the editor in chief volunteered to join the IDF and served as a guard in a prison camp might be relevant.

In america at least, the mainstream/establishment left and right seem to be unflinchingly united on this topic.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#36
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the "Center for Immigration Studies": > The Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) is an American anti-immigration think tank. It favors far lower immigration numbers and produces analyses to further those views. The CIS was founded by historian Otis L. Graham alongside eugenicist and white nationalist John Tanton in 1985 as a spin-off of the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR). It is one of a number o…

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I don't need fact checkers to know it's bad when white nationalism and Alex Jones are involved.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#38
post #27
post #25

When commenting about how this affects economic policy, immigration reform, military involvement, the causes of why we’re here, laws, title 42, migrants, justifications, and everything in between.. Remember that these are people just like you and I. They, like all humans, are seeking safety and stability for theirselves and families. The difference is that they were born, or ended up in, situations so dire they felt…

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[deleted]

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, I see it quite frequently. In particular I see references to the anti-Palestinian bias with suggestions that the fact the editor in chief volunteered to join the IDF and served as a guard in a prison camp might be relevant.

In america at least, the mainstream/establishment left and right seem to be unflinchingly united on this topic.

On support for Israel, yes. Plenty of mainstream Americans think it's weird to volunteer to be an IDF prison guard as an American though.

Re: What I Saw in the Darién Gap

#40
post #27
post #25

When commenting about how this affects economic policy, immigration reform, military involvement, the causes of why we’re here, laws, title 42, migrants, justifications, and everything in between.. Remember that these are people just like you and I. They, like all humans, are seeking safety and stability for theirselves and families. The difference is that they were born, or ended up in, situations so dire they felt…

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> Yes, technically they are people, from the same species. Then about anything else is different.

They are people, without technicalities. And we have a lot in common. There are a lot of differences inside a country too. In my country far-right doesn't value women right, personal freedom and non-violence while most migrants I've met do.

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