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Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

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31–40 of 78 posts

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#31
post #9
post #3

I sincerely hope not. I have incisor teeth passed down to me from generation upon generation of my previous kin all the way back to my stoneage ancestors. Incisors are specifically designed for tearing and ripping meat. I eat real meat!

Cool. The strongest argument for a boring diet is your teeth.

No, the strongest argument is a mix of "DON'T WANNA!" and "U Mad, Bro?"

It's the wonderful confection of oppositional defiant disorder and performative assholery that attempts to piss off the performer's mental model of some other person, usually for influencer points and political point-scoring.

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#32
I'm not convinced lab grown meat will ever be economical because real meat is subsidized, but not in the way you think (ie government subsidies).

If you think about the Earth, it receives a large amount of solar energy. While it makes the world habitable it does a lot of other things. A big one is that the Earth stores this energy in various ways. Plants are an example of this. Photosynthesizing plants, in particular, convert solar energy into sugars.

Animals come along and eat those plants and convert the plant's stored energy into protein. You can think of the plant and animal kingdom as just a massive funnel that converts solar energy into the smallest organisms that successively collects into the largest animals and plants.

Traditionally, we would eat wild animals that were essentially "free". So if you have to create that much proetein and energy from scratch in a lab, you're suddenly paying for all the steps leading up to that that being a grown animal. Obviously we have farm-raised cows that do require inputs but they're still largely eating grown feed.

It's oddly similar to creating people to work. If you had to pay for and build a person it would be incredibly expensive and time-consuming. Like imagine if Amazon had to "farm" people to work in their warehouses. They'd be spending millions of dollars for one person and it would take 18+ years. It just wouldn't be economical or make any sense.

Butinstead we create new humans all by ourselves, pay for their eduction (either directly or indirectly), pay for their food and shelter and so on. So by the time that person becomes an adult, Amazon can pay them $15/hour to work in their warehouse.

So while we create new humans for reasons of our own, from the perspective of a company who really only views you as a labor unit to create value for them, we're "subsidizing' the creation of those new labor units.

That means it's really difficult for an AI/ML system or a robot to compete with a human because that human is "subsidized". Obviously automation happens but, so far at least, it's only really for the most menial of tasks.

You can buy a calf for like $100-500 IIRC. Put it in on some land with somne grass and fresh water and in a small number of years, it'll be a cow that will produce hundres of pounds of meat. It's taken a lot of energy to get there but most of that energy is free.

Lab-grown meat will have to pay that energy cost. That's why I think it'll have a difficult time competing.

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#33
post #13

We currently have a restaurant here in Tel Aviv (The Chicken, https://thechicken.kitchen/ ), that acts as the test kitchen for a local startup called SuperMeat. This is definitely something that is happening, and even in the nearish (sub 10 year) term. The dream is that this is always around the corner, however.

How the hell does Israel do this?

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#34
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when 95% of animal products are factory farmed globally, the processes already take away from the nutrition and heavily harm the environment. Surely reducing the harm to the environment and animals is worth it...Not to mention the horrible conditions for the people who's job it is to kill animals all day in abattoirs?!

Where do you think the nutrients for cultivated meat are going to come from? Where do you think the byproducts are going to go? Sustainably raised meat is the most environmentally friendly way to feed people.

> Where do you think the nutrients for cultivated meat are going to come from? Where do you think the byproducts are going to go?

Most likely the same places they already do.

Ideally, GM the cell lines and make them photovores or electrovores, have them synthesise their own nutrients from air and rock — but that's a way off.

> Sustainably raised meat is the most environmentally friendly way to feed people.

Not even today.

Right now, a lot of livestock is a middle-man between plants and us, and we could feed more people for less money just by eating a fraction of the crops that are used to feed the animals.

Meat is a preference, widely chosen as people get richer, it's not a "best option" in terms of health or economics.

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#35
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you think the nutrients for cultivated meat are going to come from? Where do you think the byproducts are going to go? Sustainably raised meat is the most environmentally friendly way to feed people.

The most environmentally friendly is to not eat meat.

If you continue this ad absurdum, the only logical step would be to perform a variant of seppuku. I see relatively little sepukkus performed around me.

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#36
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when 95% of animal products are factory farmed globally, the processes already take away from the nutrition and heavily harm the environment. Surely reducing the harm to the environment and animals is worth it...Not to mention the horrible conditions for the people who's job it is to kill animals all day in abattoirs?!

Where do you think the nutrients for cultivated meat are going to come from? Where do you think the byproducts are going to go? Sustainably raised meat is the most environmentally friendly way to feed people.

For that you need sustainably grown plants, which are even more environnemental friendly if directly fed to human. They are possible at scale of present humanity, witch grass fed meat is not.

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#37
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But when 95% of animal products are factory farmed globally, the processes already take away from the nutrition and heavily harm the environment. Surely reducing the harm to the environment and animals is worth it...Not to mention the horrible conditions for the people who's job it is to kill animals all day in abattoirs?!

Where do you think the nutrients for cultivated meat are going to come from? Where do you think the byproducts are going to go? Sustainably raised meat is the most environmentally friendly way to feed people.

I'm pretty certain the current processes require a growth medium that comes, partially, from other animals. That's not a hard requirement, however, and the answer "farmed algae" is a reasonable target as the process is refined.

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#38
post #13

We currently have a restaurant here in Tel Aviv (The Chicken, https://thechicken.kitchen/ ), that acts as the test kitchen for a local startup called SuperMeat. This is definitely something that is happening, and even in the nearish (sub 10 year) term. The dream is that this is always around the corner, however.

How the hell does Israel do this?

Billions in foreign aid certainly helps

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#39
post #32

I'm not convinced lab grown meat will ever be economical because real meat is subsidized, but not in the way you think (ie government subsidies). If you think about the Earth, it receives a large amount of solar energy. While it makes the world habitable it does a lot of other things. A big one is that the Earth stores this energy in various ways. Plants are an example of this. Photosynthesizing plants, in particular…

There’s not enough land for cows eating grass to make enough meat to satisfy humanity. Net result you get feedlots where cows consume the majority of the calories in their lifetime from optimized crops. That involves a great deal of labor and 80% of global agricultural land, but results in more meat from the same land.

The ~10 billion people in 2060 who will on average be better off than we are today are going to want a great deal more meat than we can produce using current methods because land is ultimately finite. Lab grown meat is simply the next stage of industrial agriculture where you need less feedstock and thus less land to produce the same amount of meat.

Cost is currently a major issue, but supply and demand means it’s not going to compete with current meat prices but where prices end up when scarcity becomes an issue.

Re: Is Cultivated Meat for Real?

#40
Cultured foods are a huge opportunity, but meat, at least steaks etc, or even mince, probably need much more work.

In the meantime, oils, juices, dairy, pulps and perhaps flours seem like prime candidates for cultured production, either biologically by fermentation, tissue culture etc, or just direct synthesis (esp. oils, fats).

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