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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#31
post #9

> Most of those migrants have come to the United States in what experts call the most significant migration wave in Cuban history. With the destabilization that a population drop of 10% has, the potential for more migration in the long term and the associated costs... Wouldn't it make sense for the U.S. to invest and help Cuba? It would also have the additional benefit of maybe depriving Russia of an ally.

The current U.S. position towards Cuba continues to puzzle me. Their geopolitical stance is nowhere near being on the same level as North Korea or Iran. Given Cuba's proximity and relative productive capacity you'd think that we'd be easy allies if only they hadn't upset a bunch of dead politicians 60 years ago.

Current position is easily explained; most active US voters are >50 yo and elect 50+ year old pols.

All of those 50+ year olds were weened on “Cuba bad.”

Leadership is mostly ossified and low effort adults who rarely update their opinion; they just engage in their routine, recite the spoken pageantry, idle about like brain dead tourists of reality and die down the road.

Murican Civic Life has taken hold of the same biology religion stumbled upon. Time to “blink” and accept physical statistics just keeps enough stuff on shelves the majority don’t riot and mv /human/story/mode /dev/null

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current U.S. position towards Cuba continues to puzzle me. Their geopolitical stance is nowhere near being on the same level as North Korea or Iran. Given Cuba's proximity and relative productive capacity you'd think that we'd be easy allies if only they hadn't upset a bunch of dead politicians 60 years ago.

They are a hostile dictatorship, with zero resources but their oppressed people. Why would USA be interested in allying with them?

Their government is hostile like a friend’s chihuahua. It will make it known it doesn’t like you, but it ain’t going to do anything about it because it can’t.

The people on the other hand are truly wonderful human beings that would love to be able to have visitors or visit other countries themselves.

Who cares if some politicians feelings get hurt. People want to be free to do what they want in a supposedly free country.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#34

I wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. Cuba would be a great travel destination. Their cigars aren't as on par anymore as far as I know, but there's potential there, Nicara…

> Cuba would be a great travel destination.

Careful visiting if you want to use the ESTA to visit the United States.

https://ogletree.com/insights-resources/blog-posts/u-s-visa-...

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#35
post #15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The paroled non-citizens who don’t have voting rights are going to vote for trump in droves? How would this be possible exactly?

Perhaps OP means the Cuban Americans who fled before are generally pretty right wing - which is why they were persecuted by far left regime of Castro in the first place- will likely vote for Trump. It is also perhaps possible that those citizens don't like the new wave of immigrants, it is not uncommon for groups to try and raise the ladder behind them so to speak. A surprisingly large percentage immigrants are anti-…

most anti-immigration folks, are for controlled immigration process, instead of droves of people crossing the borders

And to be honest being on the other side of the board, the immigration process is a mess

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#36
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current U.S. position towards Cuba continues to puzzle me. Their geopolitical stance is nowhere near being on the same level as North Korea or Iran. Given Cuba's proximity and relative productive capacity you'd think that we'd be easy allies if only they hadn't upset a bunch of dead politicians 60 years ago.

Current position is easily explained; most active US voters are >50 yo and elect 50+ year old pols. All of those 50+ year olds were weened on “Cuba bad.” Leadership is mostly ossified and low effort adults who rarely update their opinion; they just engage in their routine, recite the spoken pageantry, idle about like brain dead tourists of reality and die down the road. Murican Civic Life has taken hold of the same b…

Also Florida is a large swing state, and the Cubans who have fled there are the ones who hate the current government.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politics. Florida used to be swing state in Presidential Elections. The Cuban community in Florida loses their shit if President talks about lifting the sanctions and will vote other way. If all Cubans had settled in California or Wyoming, we likely would have lifted sanctions a long time ago since they wouldn't have as much political power. It's why we lifted sanctions on Vietnam so long ago. Vietnamese who fled mos…

It almost seems the Cuban exiles want the people they left behind in Cuba to suffer as much as possible. What else have the sanctions achieved?

There seems to be a belief that if sanctions remain THIS YEAR, regime change will come to Cuba. It didn't work. Well, NEXT YEAR they will, they have to! Repeat for 50 years.

Most people fleeing Cuba blame current regime for their suffering with good reason. So they have a desire to see it overthrown.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#39

I wonder what a sensible way forward for Cubans is, and their government. What would it take for the US to lift sanctions (I assume a radical shift within Cuba's government), and for Cuba itself (as a whole) to restructure their government in a way that would benefit them and everyone. Cuba would be a great travel destination. Their cigars aren't as on par anymore as far as I know, but there's potential there, Nicara…

Why does the US still have sanctions on them anyway? The missile crisis was 50 years ago. It's time to forgive.

Obama began easing them and opened up travel and then Trump put them all back to win Florida.

Democrats took an L for freedom, prosperity and common sense and Republicans capitalized to win back the presidency.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does the US still have sanctions on them anyway? The missile crisis was 50 years ago. It's time to forgive.

A bunch of Floridians who are, or are descended from, folks who had their land and businesses seized during the revolution are holding grudges and won’t let go of them until they’re given their stuff back or a ton of money, which, this far on, isn’t happening. Florida is important in Presidential elections. US elections are structured such that dumb stuff like a relatively small—but loud—and also hopeless interest in…

I think that's really underselling the political persecution that many have suffered in Cuba. It's far and away from just wanting reparations for land grabs.

We have sanctions on Cuba for the same reason we have sanctions on Russia and Venezuela now- we don't want to fund what their government is doing, and allying with them gives us little to nothing in return.

That said, it's pretty obvious that economic sanctions aren't bringing about regime change. I don't think anyone has the stomach for putting boots on the ground, though.

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