Well worth reflecting that relatively little of existing free software seems to come from that sort of funding. It is mostly commercial companies following commoditise-the-complement strategies, consultancies building free tools then supporting them, or research spinoffs. If EU funding can create and sustain a thriving free software ecosystem I suspect it would require a new funding model that we haven't seen yet. Ot…
Some projects funded by NLnet, https://nlnet.nl/project/ ActivityPub Discourse, WordPress bcachefs CryptPad F-Droid Jabber/XMPP Jitsi LibreOffice Matrix Mastodon NextCloud PulseAudio QubesOS SourceHut
The European Union must keep funding free software
31–40 of 42 posts
Re: The European Union must keep funding free software
#32Half the projects go no where, a quarter have some meaningful output with varying levels of adoption, and a quarter are amazing & loved bits of work.
Theres folks asking if we are getting out moneys worth. First, $27m just doesn't seem like all that much. Especially for such a broad array of nations. Second, the hit ratio is never going to be perfect; worrying about how every dollar is spent will insure you never ever have good research & development, will insure only lukewarm mild takes get tried. You have to be willing to fund adventerous stuff; that's what VCs for example bank on. Because it's impossible to tell, because trying to be smart ahead of time breeds mediocrity. And this r&d&maintenance funding: it buys not only the fruits of that labor, but it maintains a dynamic & empowered culture across the region. It curates talent & starts efforts & intensives the best parts of it's software world.
NLnet is so exceedingly important. There's so much possible good that humanity so rarely can get up to. NLNet has been one of core & best ways to promote making things better. This vision of human possibility is saintly & sovereign. I hope EU can keep it going.
Re: The European Union must keep funding free software
#33Well worth reflecting that relatively little of existing free software seems to come from that sort of funding. It is mostly commercial companies following commoditise-the-complement strategies, consultancies building free tools then supporting them, or research spinoffs. If EU funding can create and sustain a thriving free software ecosystem I suspect it would require a new funding model that we haven't seen yet. Ot…
Some projects funded by NLnet, https://nlnet.nl/project/ ActivityPub Discourse, WordPress bcachefs CryptPad F-Droid Jabber/XMPP Jitsi LibreOffice Matrix Mastodon NextCloud PulseAudio QubesOS SourceHut
Re: The European Union must keep funding free software
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some projects funded by NLnet, https://nlnet.nl/project/ ActivityPub Discourse, WordPress bcachefs CryptPad F-Droid Jabber/XMPP Jitsi LibreOffice Matrix Mastodon NextCloud PulseAudio QubesOS SourceHut
That list seems a bit lacking substance and slightly off target. NLNet doesn't claim to fund libreoffice for example - that was a Sun office suite, picked up by the Apache foundation and now controlled by the Document Foundation (mainly through general donations if I understood their financial reports). NLNet seems to be funding things like "encrypted collaborative editing in the browser [using libreoffice]" which is…
> don't have the bandwidth to pull off this sort of delicate technical work
What's the basis for this claim? There are literally 1,000 technical work engagements listed above, scoped in detail and reviewed by a few humans (not "all of Europe") at NLnet, with a track record of successful delivery to upstream OSS projects.
Re: The European Union must keep funding free software
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
PyPy received an EU grant sometime in the late 2000s or early 2010s, although it had to be a different one. If I understood TFA correctly, NLnet is partially funded by this money? NLnet itself distributes money to very cool software things[1]—some moonshots such as Spectrum[2], some very down-to-earth and usable ones such as Nitrokey[3]. A discussion[4] linked in a neighbouring comment also mentions Sourcehut and Bca…
Thank you. I was looking for something like a table with a project, maybe a summary, amount funded, KPIs, and ideally an assessment of the results.
Re: The European Union must keep funding free software
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
That list seems a bit lacking substance and slightly off target. NLNet doesn't claim to fund libreoffice for example - that was a Sun office suite, picked up by the Apache foundation and now controlled by the Document Foundation (mainly through general donations if I understood their financial reports). NLNet seems to be funding things like "encrypted collaborative editing in the browser [using libreoffice]" which is…
NLnet funds tactical feature improvements in selected OSS projects, not Google-scale underwriting of employee teams. > don't have the bandwidth to pull off this sort of delicate technical work What's the basis for this claim? There are literally 1,000 technical work engagements listed above, scoped in detail and reviewed by a few humans (not "all of Europe") at NLnet, with a track record of successful delivery to ups…
The title of the piece is "Open Letter to the European Commission".
The EU commission has more important things to focus on than this low impact slush fund aspect of NLnet. Given the lack of impressive successes that you can point at, maybe there is an argument that they are and that NLnet just isn't doing very well. I dunno. If they could manage to get a Google-scale company to take root in Europe it'd achieve a lot more.
Re: The European Union must keep funding free software
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
NLnet funds tactical feature improvements in selected OSS projects, not Google-scale underwriting of employee teams. > don't have the bandwidth to pull off this sort of delicate technical work What's the basis for this claim? There are literally 1,000 technical work engagements listed above, scoped in detail and reviewed by a few humans (not "all of Europe") at NLnet, with a track record of successful delivery to ups…
> What's the basis for this claim? The title of the piece is "Open Letter to the European Commission". The EU commission has more important things to focus on than this low impact slush fund aspect of NLnet. Given the lack of impressive successes that you can point at, maybe there is an argument that they are and that NLnet just isn't doing very well. I dunno. If they could manage to get a Google-scale company to tak…
> the lack of impressive success
Successful delivery of hundreds of projects doesn't count? Improvements to widely used office and communication software? Improving critical infrastructure used by journalists and other members of civil society? Mentoring the next generation of developers who can staff future EU technology companies?
What type of tech projects, budget and success do you expect the EU commission to fund? Are there previous successes that could be emulated, from the EU or other governments? Google was created by private investors, as was Skype.
Re: The European Union must keep funding free software
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some projects funded by NLnet, https://nlnet.nl/project/ ActivityPub Discourse, WordPress bcachefs CryptPad F-Droid Jabber/XMPP Jitsi LibreOffice Matrix Mastodon NextCloud PulseAudio QubesOS SourceHut
nlnet funding is cents in comarison to the cost of these. They give grants, but they don't cover all the costs.
Re: The European Union must keep funding free software
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What's the basis for this claim? The title of the piece is "Open Letter to the European Commission". The EU commission has more important things to focus on than this low impact slush fund aspect of NLnet. Given the lack of impressive successes that you can point at, maybe there is an argument that they are and that NLnet just isn't doing very well. I dunno. If they could manage to get a Google-scale company to tak…
Are you comparing nonprofit project budgets of a few thousand euros to corporate VC/investment budgets that are orders of magnitudes larger? > the lack of impressive success Successful delivery of hundreds of projects doesn't count? Improvements to widely used office and communication software? Improving critical infrastructure used by journalists and other members of civil society? Mentoring the next generation of d…
I'm not sure why you think the EU should be wasting bandwidth on this given that you are (accurately) identifying that it isn't managing to marshal much capital or following a model that leads to notable successes. The focus should be on incubating more successful strategies. The way to get good OSS ecosystems is a web of companies making money off open source software. That is how we get things like Linux, Chrome or Postgres.
> Successful delivery of hundreds of projects doesn't count?
Not really, no. Especially if the projects are already being funded by a government program - give me a budget and I can fund a thousand github projects. When you tried to list successes, you put together a list with names like XMPP or WordPress on it. And don't misunderstand me, I like XMPP and Wordpress; but they are not strategically useful to a body like the EU.
> Are you comparing nonprofit project budgets of a few thousand euros to corporate VC/investment budgets that are orders of magnitudes larger?
Yep. And it is unimpressive. It doesn't look like a close race to me, efforts via NLnet are feeble compared to the US approach, where they pour in orders of magnitude more effort and get much bigger payoffs.
The EU has a problem - no companies. They should solve that problem, not make random microdonations - there is no particular evidence that is powerful, at least not that I've seen. There is evidence that corporations are powerful at producing OSS though.