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The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

daveon.design

31–40 of 113 posts

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#31

The paragraph about wood pellet exports really makes me mad. I have always harbored some disdain for "green" policies in well-developed countries, because they always seem to simply move the "filth" into another, poorer country and make it their problem. If the wood were burned locally (and without the additional expenditure of pellet-making), I could see a sustainability argument in there and support it. The place I…

Most political institutions exist to funnel wealth from poorer people to richer people.

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#32

The paragraph about wood pellet exports really makes me mad. I have always harbored some disdain for "green" policies in well-developed countries, because they always seem to simply move the "filth" into another, poorer country and make it their problem. If the wood were burned locally (and without the additional expenditure of pellet-making), I could see a sustainability argument in there and support it. The place I…

I live in western EU and I confirm that. There's so much forest in my place that nobody cares about that you could heat the whole area without cutting a single tree, just by picking up what fell down. I'm totally serious about that, there's so much trees on the floor that cutting new ones for firewood is mostly useless.

And despite all of this, we import processed pellets and the only wood we cut is sent to China for making furniture, that's absolute insanity.

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#33

The paragraph about wood pellet exports really makes me mad. I have always harbored some disdain for "green" policies in well-developed countries, because they always seem to simply move the "filth" into another, poorer country and make it their problem. If the wood were burned locally (and without the additional expenditure of pellet-making), I could see a sustainability argument in there and support it. The place I…

Eastern countries added to the union benefit from Union. They are the ones who are given quite a lot of money. They are not squeezed, they are directly financially benefiting.

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#34
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have worked in forestry and and have planted 500 trees daily... And there are laws that replanting must be started within 2/5 years of cutting. If you look aerial photos of the area in article then you can see that this process is started. Cannot find exact spot but looking around in the village.

Author here. I'm actually sitting in a cafe in a town close to the village this is about right now. I've visited many of the spots mentioned in this article. I haven't checked all of them, but all the ones I have checked have _no_ manual replanting to date, that I can see. (I'd expect a grid, with trees with those little fences protecting them, etc.) What I do see is just natural growth of various plant species takin…

> I'd expect a grid, with trees with those little fences protecting them, etc.

That is not how forest replanting works. That is how you do a garden.

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#35
post #5

We want to be environmentally friendly and avoid plastic straws and plastic bags and replace them with paper straws and paper bags. Yet we are disgusted when forests are cut down and then replanted.

I'm actually a fan of 'tree farms': responsible forestry, specific areas of land dedicated to monocultures of useful tree species that are grown, harvested, replanted, and harvested again. That's very different from what's seen in Estonia, where there's logging in national parks, and random plots of land in the forest are clear-felled. Ten years ago you'd drive through the countryside and enjoy the trees, uninterrupt…

I’m not. Or, rather, not a fan of turning >100,000 km^2 of forest into tree farms, with another 100,000 being spared the fate simply because exploiting it is not economically viable.

I’m Finnish, and us Finns like to talk about our special relationship with nature, and how we haven’t turned all of our forests into ships, fuel, and farmland like the West Europeans have. And that’s true. 75% of the country is covered in trees. We industrialized too late to have done much of the former two, and the climate and soil types aren’t very conducive to the latter except in the south-western parts of the country.

But.

By and large, those trees exist because it’s considered economically important for them to exist. Over 95% of the forests in the southern half of the country are far from their untouched state – they haven’t seen a natural process of succession, or ecological diversity, in generations. They are tree plantations, not real forests.

The destructive practice of clear-cutting was literally the only legally allowed method of harvesting until very recently, and it’s still preferred by all but the most ecologically aware land owners because old habits die hard.

Finnish forestry practices are proudly being called sustainable – and indeed they are when it comes to raw yields and economic output. (That’s changing as well, though, as plantations are getting harvested younger and younger, for a quicker return on investment – as in, 50–60 years rather than the recommended 90–100!)

But for a long time, that very narrow economical viewpoint of sustainability is all that mattered, and indeed many forest owners (often including the state itself) cannot even fathom that their practices could be somehow unsustainable. The Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry has quite a bit of power, and there’s an obvious conflict of interests in having the double portfolio of both protecting natural land and exploiting it economically.

Many if not most Finns now think that managed forest is what forests are supposed to be like because they have never seen real, ecologically diverse woodland with ongoing natural succession. Sure, it still beats the alternative of having little forest cover, and broad freedom to roam rights mean anyone can use Finnish forests for recreation, whether privately owned or not, but as it becomes more and more clear that climate change simply cannot be tackled independently of the loss of biodiversity, but rather those two issues are deeply interweaved.

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#36

The paragraph about wood pellet exports really makes me mad. I have always harbored some disdain for "green" policies in well-developed countries, because they always seem to simply move the "filth" into another, poorer country and make it their problem. If the wood were burned locally (and without the additional expenditure of pellet-making), I could see a sustainability argument in there and support it. The place I…

Wood burning is never sustainable, 'green', nor healthy. It boggles the mind that it is not normal to outlaw it.

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#37

Hello everyone -- what a lovely surprise to see this posted! This is my article. Happy to answer questions :)

does the article cover what is happening to the land afterwards? Is it felled for more farming, will it be replanted, will there be building and development?

I find it quite an important aspect of the issue of land use the article covers but little detail is given.

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#38
post #33

The paragraph about wood pellet exports really makes me mad. I have always harbored some disdain for "green" policies in well-developed countries, because they always seem to simply move the "filth" into another, poorer country and make it their problem. If the wood were burned locally (and without the additional expenditure of pellet-making), I could see a sustainability argument in there and support it. The place I…

Eastern countries added to the union benefit from Union. They are the ones who are given quite a lot of money. They are not squeezed, they are directly financially benefiting.

[deleted]

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh no! I will look into this. Can you share a phone model / screensize please? It is "okay" in the ones I test with. On my todo is to make footnotes collapsed by default on mobile, so you tap to display them. Right now they are always present and so interrupt the paragraphs. I don't like this, and it may be what you're seeing.

1080x2340, Chrome on Android. Screenshot here: https://imgur.com/a/E3Q3nrc

Thankyou. That's the todo I want to fix. I really should have before it hit the front page of HN...

I am not a super expert on HTML and CSS and I can tell that it's going to take a few hours to fix (it's not even the first time I've tried to code it.) So, right now, my apologies to everyone on mobile. I hope I will have it fixed by the time I have another article on the front page :)

Re: The War on Estonian Forests (2022)

#40
post #36

The paragraph about wood pellet exports really makes me mad. I have always harbored some disdain for "green" policies in well-developed countries, because they always seem to simply move the "filth" into another, poorer country and make it their problem. If the wood were burned locally (and without the additional expenditure of pellet-making), I could see a sustainability argument in there and support it. The place I…

Wood burning is never sustainable, 'green', nor healthy. It boggles the mind that it is not normal to outlaw it.

> Wood burning is never sustainable, 'green', nor healthy. It boggles the mind that it is not normal to outlaw it.

That's right! Then everyone will have to buy this expensive heat pump sold by few corporations around the world! It is only green when it fills correct pockets.

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