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Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

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Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#31

Post by j-b »

arjunnarayan wrote: post #5

This opinion is both extraordinary and extremely significant. Richard Posner is probably the most prolific legal intellectual not on the supreme court. He co-writes, along with Gary Becker (Nobel Prize winner in Economics) this excellent blog http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/ Posner is the author of the 4th most cited Law Review article in the field of intellectual property law[1]. Most telling of all is this statis…

An excellent quote from Posner:

"The institutional structure of the United States is under stress. We might be in dangerous economic straits if the dollar were not the principal international reserve currency and the eurozone in deep fiscal trouble. We have a huge public debt, dangerously neglected infrastructure, a greatly overextended system of criminal punishment, a seeming inability to come to grips with grave environmental problems such as global warming, a very costly but inadequate educational system, unsound immigration policies, an embarrassing obesity epidemic, an excessively costly health care system, a possible rise in structural unemployment, fiscal crises in state and local governments, a screwed-up tax system, a dysfunctional patent system, and growing economic inequality that may soon create serious social tensions. Our capitalist system needs a lot of work to achieve proper capitalist goals." [1]

[1] http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2012/06/capitalismposner.h...

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#33

Post by cglace »

planetguy wrote: post #8
mikek wrote: post #7

> [re a slide-to-unlock patent] Apple’s .. argument is that “a tap is a zero-length swipe.” That’s silly. It’s like saying that a point is a zero-length line. But a point is a zero-length line.

If my high school maths teacher were here he'd say that a point is a zero-length line segment .

Except it isn't. Doesn't a line segment required two distinct endpoints?

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#34

Post by grecy »

Wow, I think the more interesting part of this is his slamming of the current situation in America:

"The institutional structure of the United States is under stress. We might be in dangerous economic straits if the dollar were not the principal international reserve currency and the eurozone in deep fiscal trouble. We have a huge public debt, dangerously neglected infrastructure, a greatly overextended system of criminal punishment, a seeming inability to come to grips with grave environmental problems such as global warming, a very costly but inadequate educational system, unsound immigration policies, an embarrassing obesity epidemic, an excessively costly health care system, a possible rise in structural unemployment, fiscal crises in state and local governments, a screwed-up tax system, a dysfunctional patent system, and growing economic inequality that may soon create serious social tensions. Our capitalist system needs a lot of work to achieve proper capitalist goals."

Not mincing words indeed.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#35

Post by magila »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #17
bokchoi wrote: post #4

The linked blog post from Posner is excellent: http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/2012/06/capitalismposner.h...

The number of comments disagreeing with his post certainly helps explain why we've gotten in such a mess.

To be fair, calling Alan Greenspan an advocate, let alone a practitioner, of laissez-faire economics is kind of like calling the pope an atheist.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#36

Post by ecocentrik »

I'm glad Posner and a few other justices seem to have an interest in discrediting frivolous patent cases but can they do anything other than point a dirty finger at corporations for abusing the patent system and dismiss their cases with prejudice? Posner can't shift around his appointments indefinitely.

It's obvious that most HNers feel the patent system won't change any time soon or they wouldn't be filling this thread with a discussion on the definition of a line segment.

Edit: I'm not saying he should do more. I was asking if he could do more from his position. I recognize that he's bringing needed attention to the subject and setting an example that will probably be followed by others in the judiciary.

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#37

Post by throwaway___ »

hristov wrote: post #28
mikek wrote: post #7

> [re a slide-to-unlock patent] Apple’s .. argument is that “a tap is a zero-length swipe.” That’s silly. It’s like saying that a point is a zero-length line. But a point is a zero-length line.

Not exactly. Even if you disregard the definition arguments discussed below, and allow the definition of "line segment" to include "point" I would not say that a point is a zero length line segment. It seems to me that the "lenght" of a point, if such a concept is to be allowed, is infinitely small but not zero. Thus, a point has length of lim(x->0) x. To me, a zero length line segment would be nothingness. But putti…

Euclid, Book 1, Definition 1. "A point is that which has no part."

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#38

Post by js2 »

eykanal wrote: post #32

I can't read the embedded Scribd document (scribd is blocked here)... what term does Motorola claim has a "plain and ordinary meaning"?

The quote is from an earlier ruling, not from the PDF. The full quote is:

"Motorola is hereby ordered to propose a claim construction of the term 'predetermined number of channel resources' in patent '898 at tomorrow's Markman hearing. Motorola's contention that the term has a 'plain and ordinary meaning' is ridiculous; Motorola seems to have forgotten that this is a jury trial. The term 'predetermined' means 'determined prior to some other event,' and what that 'other event' is is not obvious in context and certainly will not be obvious to a jury. If Motorola does not want Apple's proposal to be accepted, it must propose some alternative."

http://www.fosspatents.com/2012/03/judge-posner-praises-appl...

Re: Famous judge spikes Apple-Google case, calls patent system “dysfunctional”

#39

Post by lmarinho »

Aethaeryn wrote: post #18
colanderman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement would imply that a point has a direction, which it does not. Also, a line does not have a length; both you and Posner meant line segment . So a correct statement would be: A zero-length line segment is a point. Edit: not even this is true if your definition of a line segment explicitly states that the endpoints must be distinct, as does PlanetMath's definition, as Aethaeryn points out below.

> A zero-length line segment is a point. The Wikipedia definition of a line segment says that it is bound by two endpoints.[1] It provides a reference to Planet Math that goes into specifics.[2] In this page, it is made clear that the two endpoints cannot be equal. Planet Math provides an equation for a closed[3] line segment: L = {a + tb | t in [0, 1]} This means that a line segment can be expressed as all of the po…

I'd also refer to Hilbert's Axioms[1], which are the basis for the modern treatment of Euclidean Geometry.

[1] http://www.gutenberg.org/files/17384/17384-pdf.pdf

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