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Notes on Tajikistan

mattlakeman.org

31–40 of 412 posts

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#31

Tajikistan looks to be an interesting case of Islam being kept in check without resorting to either extremism or terrorism. But this is neither free nor assured, and it probably requires constant wilful effort. In the long term, I can see it bleeding more territory to China due to the significant difference in military power and aggression. This is so long as there isn't a NATO-like structure to keep Chinese aggressi…

[flagged]

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#32
post #6

An amazing place. I visited twice about 15 years ago and have many fond memories of it, but mostly when I think about it I'm filled with sadness, because the people there deserve so much better. They're constantly knee-deep in corruption, both street level and just the very blatant kleptocratic presidential family. There's a lot of ethnic Russians, both expat workers and ones that didn't manage to leave after the col…

> ones that didn't manage to leave after the collapse of the Soviet Union > openly racist towards ethnic Tajiks Makes me wonder, maybe something happened between ethnic Tajiks and ethnic Russians between Soviet Union collapse and the present.

OP visited about 15 years ago so if you are hinting at the more recent event, it doesn't sound relevant. And if it is not that, I'm not sure what you are hinting at.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#34

Tajikistan looks to be an interesting case of Islam being kept in check without resorting to either extremism or terrorism. But this is neither free nor assured, and it probably requires constant wilful effort. In the long term, I can see it bleeding more territory to China due to the significant difference in military power and aggression. This is so long as there isn't a NATO-like structure to keep Chinese aggressi…

All of the central Asian “stan” countries have a Muslim majority and Tajikistan is actually the most extreme of them. But Kazakhstan, kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Indonesia, Turkey and Iran are all examples of islam without extremism (although Iran has fundamentalism)

Kazakhstan has a problem with Islamic extremists and the government is very much worried about it and spends a lot of money fighting it. They put cameras in every mosque, for example, and work their people into every religious group of any significance.

There's not much info on it in English, but here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Aktobe_bombing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Aktobe_shootings

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Контртеррористическая_операция...

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#35

Tajikistan looks to be an interesting case of Islam being kept in check without resorting to either extremism or terrorism. But this is neither free nor assured, and it probably requires constant wilful effort. In the long term, I can see it bleeding more territory to China due to the significant difference in military power and aggression. This is so long as there isn't a NATO-like structure to keep Chinese aggressi…

All of the central Asian “stan” countries have a Muslim majority and Tajikistan is actually the most extreme of them. But Kazakhstan, kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Indonesia, Turkey and Iran are all examples of islam without extremism (although Iran has fundamentalism)

When your police are free to abuse girls all the way up to abusing them to death for not wearing hats like Iran is, I'm pretty sure that's extremism.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#36
post #21
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yeah, "the West" lost a lot of goodwill in the region in the last couple of decades to be able to talk from such a high moral ground. I don't have any studies — they're probably impossible to run in an autocratic state — but in my country among people I've talked with through my life all major powers are viewed with roughly the same suspicion. It depends a lot on who you're talking to. If people are worried of possib…

You are being downvoted, but I think it has to do with your last paragraph. Check the guidelines link at the bottom, it has some related remarks.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#37
post #11

Tajikistan looks to be an interesting case of Islam being kept in check without resorting to either extremism or terrorism. But this is neither free nor assured, and it probably requires constant wilful effort. In the long term, I can see it bleeding more territory to China due to the significant difference in military power and aggression. This is so long as there isn't a NATO-like structure to keep Chinese aggressi…

I think there's more danger of bleeding territory to the Taliban, at least it has been the case until recently. Especially if Russia (who has had a big military base there forever) becomes irrelevant.

I think they were on high alert up until recently and are now in the process of trying to figure out how to get along with them. On the border areas, there were a handful of markets in the mountain villages where they allowed Afghans to cross the border to sell products. These markets were shut down once the Taliban took over but have recently been re-opened.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#38
post #28

Tajikistan looks to be an interesting case of Islam being kept in check without resorting to either extremism or terrorism. But this is neither free nor assured, and it probably requires constant wilful effort. In the long term, I can see it bleeding more territory to China due to the significant difference in military power and aggression. This is so long as there isn't a NATO-like structure to keep Chinese aggressi…

Saying "Islam being kept in check" in this way sounds an implication that religion (or perhaps just this one) ought to be suppressed. This sort of attitude and policy coming from it is like gasoline for religious extremism, and the fact that Tajikistan exports extremists should be enough evidence for that

“Suppressed” would be more extremism. “Kept in check”? Yeah, that’s probably a good treatment for any religion.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#39
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At one point the government of Kazakhstan threatened legal action over Borat and Sacha Baron Cohen hilariously responded in character. “I fully support my government’s position to sue this Jew.” https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/bor...

yeah at another point he distanced himself from making racist movies about country he has 0 idea about. then you bring up an example of him trying to hide behind his Jewish identity to be above criticism as a "joke". it's trivial to punch down and then act like a victim by bringing up your own identity. People who find it easy to make fun of others while being extremely thin-skinned themselves: https://www.timesofisr…

I live in Kazakhstan as expat, and locals are brought up patriotic pretty much like in America -- national anthem at school every day (I shivered when I learned about it, both about KZ and America), told they're the richest post-soviet country. So the movie that plays the anthem and highlights so much that he's from Kazakhstan (although he looks nothing like a Kazakh), looks like a serious insult.

(edit: to be exact, I don't mean he mocks this partiotism, there's nothing to do with it in the movie.)

I've been told that the true meaning was to film Americans with candid camera and laugh at how stupid they are, but to me, Borat is the only thing people utter when I say where I am, so it's pretty annoying.

OTOH, given this popularity, nat. govt could have paid some petro-uranium-dollars to Cohen for some tourism commercials.

Re: Notes on Tajikistan

#40
post #36
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "the West" lost a lot of goodwill in the region in the last couple of decades to be able to talk from such a high moral ground. I don't have any studies — they're probably impossible to run in an autocratic state — but in my country among people I've talked with through my life all major powers are viewed with roughly the same suspicion. It depends a lot on who you're talking to. If people are worried of possib…

You are being downvoted, but I think it has to do with your last paragraph. Check the guidelines link at the bottom, it has some related remarks.

That's fair, thanks, I edited it out.
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