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Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

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Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#31

Post by light_hue_1 »

guitarlimeo wrote: post #3
gabesullice wrote: post #2

I find it difficult to take the technology review seriously with the off topic remarks and prefaces about Musk and Tesla at the beginning of the post.

I find that apologetic behaviour strange too. You own a Tesla, it's a good car, no need to be sorry for its frontman. I mean I kinda get it? But everyone's doing it and it's weird. It's almost like writing a review of meat and apologizing for eating meat beforehand.

It's because the brand is borderline toxic now.

I've seen it firsthand living in a very liberal area. 3 years ago people loved the brand. People would strike up conversation about it. It was all upbeat, happy and hopeful.

Now, people rarely talk about it. And when they do it's apologetically. It often ends with some down statement about politics. Someone saying there were no other choices. Just a crappy time.

I love my Tesla. It's a great car. But it's my last. I want nothing to do with this type of politics or conversation.

I for one am sorry for its frontman. It's a good car that I don't want again... That's just stupid of him.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#32

Post by KaiserPro »

gabesullice wrote: post #2

I find it difficult to take the technology review seriously with the off topic remarks and prefaces about Musk and Tesla at the beginning of the post.

I suspect its because having a personality lead company implies that people buying that product tend to agree with the personality.

Tesla is an extreme example, Elon is either Jesus, or Judas. There is no in between. I have a Powerewall, because it was at the time the best product.

When I do talk about it, the second or third question is: "what do you think of, you know, nod, nod, wink, wink".

He's a polarising figure, which makes getting useful reviews out of their products/business practices hard. (same with Facebook, Nestle and other pariahs.)

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#33

Post by Onavo »

disillusioned wrote: post #26

I just completed my trial and it was better than I expected, and yet still utterly terrifying at bits. It still feels _very_ far off from being able to safely navigate and negotiate only medium-complexity environments, but maybe the vaunted 12.4/12.5 update will change all of that. For example: * It still won't change in or out of a solid line HOV lane here in Arizona. Feels like an easy fix, but there it is * I have…

The pre 12.5 stack uses traditional C++ conditionals together with computer vision for highway driving. 12.5 and after is the a single stack setup (at least that's what Musk claims).

The 12.3.6 (or the 12.4.1 that's being trialed right now) is pretty much the current production state of the art for Tesla street level (not highway) single stack self driving where the steering commands are directly issued by the neural network.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#34

Post by boudin »

nelsonic wrote: post #13

The author of this article doesn't understand how continuous improvement in software works ... Saying that it will "never" work is myopic. Never bet against Moores Law or Elon! As a Tesla M3 owner (in Europe where we don't have FSD yet) I cannot wait to have it for long road trips on highways where I want to relax and have a "copilot" do some of the "thinking" & driving for me. Yes, there are still some instances of…

I really hope this will not been available in a long time in Europe. I don't want to be part of musk's irresponsible beta testing plan as someone who lives around tesla cars. I also really hope that there will be a point based drivers licence similar to human ones that applies to those technologies before this kind of experiment is started. If it loses its points, the whole system has to be disabled and having to go through a audit/licence process to be allowed on public roads again.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#35

Post by forgot-im-old »

croes wrote: post #30
jlmorton wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what Elon has said. He's said that 99.99% of all vehicle miles are useless from a training perspective. https://www.teslarati.com/fsd-distance-driven-training-musk/

That's not the same. Elon thinks if he gets the right training data he gets rid of the dangerous 1% of errors. But that is not the case if it's a general problem of the used AI.

Right, getting more corner cases training data won't solve an architecture problem. AI in general quickly impresses when it's mostly right but improving from there is the challenge.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#36

Post by ggm »

sneak wrote: post #11

> I’ve had a Model Y for more than 3 years now, well before Elon revealed himself as the kind of person he really is, and I’ve been happy with it. > When I buy my next car, my requirements will be simple: I want an EV, an extensive charger network along I-80, and an autosteer that’s at least as good as what I have today. Let’s hope there’ll be decent Tesla alternatives by then. Gee, I wonder if this is going to be an…

Would it be unfair to ask if you like the current FSD and think its on track, or if you don't. Or, the third option of not wanting FSD at all because I'm trying to work out what systematic bias you expect to see here.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#37

Post by mg »

I think a good indicator if it is useful or not is to look at how much it is actually used.

Tesla published a chart of cumulative miles driven over time on page 8 of their latest quarterly update:

https://digitalassets.tesla.com/tesla-contents/image/upload/...

So far, I'm not sure what to make of it. The chart looks somewhat exponential. But since they brought more and more cars onto the road, one would expect exponential growth in this chart even if no additional usage was caused by software improvements. So one would have to un-cumulate the chart and then divide the y-axis by number of cars on the road to get usage by car.

And then one would have to factor in price changes.

I think the spike at the right is from the free trial they pushed out shortly after the release of FSD 12. The way I read the chart, the release of FSD 12 itself has not caused an increase in usage.

Does anybody know what caused the increase in growth in March 2023?

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#38

Post by KaiserPro »

Onavo wrote: post #29
CarRamrod wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TV said he was buying a Tony Stark car. Then TV revealed that Tony Stark was two Mussolinis in a trenchcoat. Car bad now

> TV said he was buying a Tony Stark car. Then TV revealed that Tony Stark was two Mussolinis in a trenchcoat. Car bad now Do you celebrate the moon landing? The US maintaining a constant lead in aerospace over the rest of the world? Those were built by the Mussolini supporters of the world. NASA and Saturn V would not have existed if not for the nice German folks who were recruited to work for Uncle Sam. Science and…

> Those were built by the Mussolini supporters of the world

I mean that's a stretch. Were they designed by literal ex-nazis? yes.

Crucially I don't remember von braun interceding in political discussions advocating for a position on anything other than space.

But there are two points that stem from this:

can a person change (for better or worse)?

can the public at large reliably recognise that change?

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#39

Post by yoavm »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #4

This is a pretty lame review, IMHO. I generally agree with the sentiment, but these examples are not great at providing full review of these features.

I don't think it's aiming to be a "full review". When you take a driving test it really doesn't matter what stuff you are good at, it only matters if you're driving safely enough to be on the road. The article shows that FSD isn't worthy of a full review because it isn't safe enough to be on the road.

Re: Tesla's FSD – A Useless Technology Demo

#40

Post by KaiserPro »

michelsedgh wrote: post #28
asddubs wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because people don't want to come off as endorsing elon musk/distance themselves from his weirder fans. I'll say though, 3 years ago is well after he called that one rescue diver a pedo so I don't know if the opening statement totally holds. Not that I really care that much.

[flagged]

I think the difference is that the CEO of Apple isn't actively engaged in public divisive discourse on hot button issues.

Don't get me wrong, I actively dislike the breathless discourse without any analysis (apple is the privacy leader, ok great, prove it...)

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