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Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

reuters.com

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Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#31

Post by logicchains »

visarga wrote: post #4

Meanwhile Apple Intelligence recalls across all apps with no backlash. I personally like this idea, should be done in a thoughtful and safe way, but recalling your logs is more useful than searching anew. I see the same double standard with Google's generative search vs OpenAI's chatGPT with search - when Google gets it wrong, it's a big issue, but not for the other.

>when Google gets it wrong, it's a big issue, but not for the other.

Because Google was presenting the AI-generated answer as the top query result, implying it's the most relevant/factual answer. OpenAI (and Bing) make it clear you're talking to an AI chatbot, which most people wouldn't expect to be as reliable/accurate as the first result in Google search.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#32

Post by sqeaky »

azinman2 wrote: post #25

I don’t understand how the gap was so large between them saying this data was encrypted/protected and people easily being able to get the raw data. I know once you’re on someone’s machine in a way all bets are off, but it feels like this should have had far greater security attached to it. It doesn’t seem to even match their promises. Couldn’t this have been seen a mile away?

I know microsoft has crap security, but in this case they probably aren't lying about it being encrypted. Encryption for storage simply isn't a solution that most people need for security of data on their devices. It pretty much only protects against the threat of a device being stolen, and that simply isn't the way most people lose their data. Almost every virus runs as the main user of the PC, so almost every virus will be able to decrypt the recall storage.

Microsoft should know this so it is easy to say they were disingenuous even raising this as a point. If Windows is to be secure it needs to fundamentally change its security model and that means breaking compatibility with a huge number of applications. So that probably can't happen.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#33

Post by IshKebab »

surfingdino wrote: post #18
ulfw wrote: post #5

What are MSFT Product Managers doing these days? This was one of the worst launches in recent years. Has Microsoft fallen victim to AI panic like Google has? Do people dare to speak up and say no to Satya and Sundar?

Microsoft suffers from bad memories of dismissing the importance of internet, then missing the boat (a failing 3-4 times) on personal music players and music/video streaming, followed by failing to capture any meaningful smartphone or tablet market share, and still playing catch up in the cloud computing space. They went all in on AI, because they want to own the next platform that others will build on top of. Their…

AI is way beyond a research project at this point, and the level of funding doesn't seem totally unreasonable given its potential.

But I do agree it isn't a "platform".

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#34

Post by ankushnarula »

azinman2 wrote: post #25

I don’t understand how the gap was so large between them saying this data was encrypted/protected and people easily being able to get the raw data. I know once you’re on someone’s machine in a way all bets are off, but it feels like this should have had far greater security attached to it. It doesn’t seem to even match their promises. Couldn’t this have been seen a mile away?

The fact that Recall data and screenshots are only protected at the file system level reinforces the reality that Windows lacks user-centered privacy and security. Microsoft is content to rest their laurels instead on system level control.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#35

Post by karlgkk »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #23
ketzo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really comparing a userland, unencrypted-at-rest SQLite database with Apple's app sandbox + secure enclave?

To be evenhanded, encrypting SQLite at rest is a well-solved problem. Dr. Richard Hipp and his merry men even sell an official extension to do so. Plenty of third party FOSS solutions also exist for this. I feel if that were the case I'd suddenly feel a lot more comfortable with the MS approach than the Apple approach.

Encryption isn’t the problem here, it’s key management.

And Microsoft’s solution was borderline useless

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#36

Post by pjmlp »

visarga wrote: post #4

Meanwhile Apple Intelligence recalls across all apps with no backlash. I personally like this idea, should be done in a thoughtful and safe way, but recalling your logs is more useful than searching anew. I see the same double standard with Google's generative search vs OpenAI's chatGPT with search - when Google gets it wrong, it's a big issue, but not for the other.

There is some backslash, however besides brand recognition, Apple has taken all the steps to approach this with security first, features second, to the point that they even have a special OS version for the server side, unikernel style, everything taken away not needed to AI compute or networking, using Swift, and the secure enclave.

Not a cleartext SQL Lite database, with stuff written either in C or C++ with COM, as the WinDev business unit loves to do.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#37

Post by pjmlp »

surfingdino wrote: post #18
ulfw wrote: post #5

What are MSFT Product Managers doing these days? This was one of the worst launches in recent years. Has Microsoft fallen victim to AI panic like Google has? Do people dare to speak up and say no to Satya and Sundar?

Microsoft suffers from bad memories of dismissing the importance of internet, then missing the boat (a failing 3-4 times) on personal music players and music/video streaming, followed by failing to capture any meaningful smartphone or tablet market share, and still playing catch up in the cloud computing space. They went all in on AI, because they want to own the next platform that others will build on top of. Their…

Additionally, they messed up so much the WinRT/UWP/WinUI developer experience, that most of us that advocated for the technology, feel betrayed and aren't going to advocate for anything else, other than regular .NET and the pre-Windows 8 desktop technologies.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#38

Post by beefnugs »

ulfw wrote: post #5

What are MSFT Product Managers doing these days? This was one of the worst launches in recent years. Has Microsoft fallen victim to AI panic like Google has? Do people dare to speak up and say no to Satya and Sundar?

Here is some brand new level of bullshit happening: they are deploying these NPU on all new processors. But with ZERO proper user consent and control.

The bare minimum of proper operating system or driver feature is that I can choose NO I dont want anything running on my NPU, unless I approve it specifically. Fuck youtube's new eyeball tracking on their ads running on MY hardware without the slightest consent.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#39

Post by Zee2 »

beefnugs wrote: post #38
ulfw wrote: post #5

What are MSFT Product Managers doing these days? This was one of the worst launches in recent years. Has Microsoft fallen victim to AI panic like Google has? Do people dare to speak up and say no to Satya and Sundar?

Here is some brand new level of bullshit happening: they are deploying these NPU on all new processors. But with ZERO proper user consent and control. The bare minimum of proper operating system or driver feature is that I can choose NO I dont want anything running on my NPU, unless I approve it specifically. Fuck youtube's new eyeball tracking on their ads running on MY hardware without the slightest consent.

>Fuck youtube's new eyeball tracking on their ads

That was a meme posted by a popular Twitter user who creates humorous Black Mirror-esque UI mockups.

Re: Microsoft to delay release of Recall AI feature on security concerns

#40

Post by iLoveOncall »

oefrha wrote: post #11
visarga wrote: post #4

Meanwhile Apple Intelligence recalls across all apps with no backlash. I personally like this idea, should be done in a thoughtful and safe way, but recalling your logs is more useful than searching anew. I see the same double standard with Google's generative search vs OpenAI's chatGPT with search - when Google gets it wrong, it's a big issue, but not for the other.

When did Apple announce they’re going to start taking screenshots of entire screens and storing them? Windows has had a (crappy) unified search “across all apps” for years and there’s been no backlash AFAIK.

They didn't, and they wouldn't. Yet, for all we know and ever will know, it's exactly how their feature might work.

The only reason people aren't outraged at Apple is because they won't be able to access the directory with all the screenshots unlike on Windows.

Both implementations are awful. Apple's one is probably the worst one actually, because it sends some data to Apple's servers for processing (probably most), when Microsoft runs everything on the device.

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