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Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

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Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#31

Post by throwAGIway »

burnished wrote: post #23
throwAGIway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same regulatory process that allowed the Boeing Max and other catastrophic issues?

That seems clear? Are you perhaps reading that as a literal command 'have faith in this process'? I believe their point is that you should have (or lose) faith in regulations as the constraint on industry, as opposed to companies which are viewed as having no restraint. I don't entirely agree with that viewpoint, but they aren't saying anything inherently contradictory

I'm reading it as naivity. You trust companies when you see evidence you should, and you stop trusting them when you shouldn't. Trusting a regulatory process leads you to bad decisions.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#32

Post by calciphus »

burnished wrote: post #21
minetest2048 wrote: post #7

As much as I think Boeing screwed up, the title is a clickbait: > NASA is giving Boeing another four days, extending Wilmore and Williams' mission onboard the ISS from June 14 to no earlier than June 18, though it's unclear whether the leaks are to blame for the delay. No, no one have conclusively say that Starliner is stuck on ISS because of helium leak

Could that be due to saving face? I poked around for more information and the best I could find was that they're going to be using at least some of the extended time to evaluate it for safety, though it was cleared for emergency evacuation (though I'm not sure what that means in space). I dunno. I do agree this is entirely clickbait. The author makes a couple implications but fails to make an argument or even really…

I'm no expert, but I'd assume "cleared for emergency evacuation in space" means "if the alternative is imminent, certain death - this option is better".

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#33

Post by panick21_ »

burnished wrote: post #15
14u2c wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that this was a fixed price contract. If they don't get it right the pork train does come to an end.

That doesn't seem to actually be the case?

It is the case. Boeing is losing billions.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#34

Post by cameldrv »

paranoidrobot wrote: post #22
pedalpete wrote: post #4

What's the strategy for getting the astronauts back? Do they jettison the Starliner and dock a different recovery vehicle? Are those on stand-by ready to go?

> Are those on stand-by ready to go? Good News: There's no real risk to them remaining on ISS at this point, short of some major incident on the ISS itself which required immediate evacuation. Less good: Even if Boeing had a spare Starliner (they don't), they don't have a spare rocket to put it on. Even if Boeing had a spare fully stacked Starliner + Rocket, I'm not sure anyone (even Boeing) would trust their process…

Polaris Dawn is supposed to go up next month, and while that mission isn’t going to the station, that capsule has been there multiple times, so I doubt it would need much modification.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#35

Post by panick21_ »

jiggawatts wrote: post #12
14u2c wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that this was a fixed price contract. If they don't get it right the pork train does come to an end.

There will always be more fixed price contracts in the future. Every time the barrel emptied in the past, a new barrel full to the brim with pork was delivered.

That bsd analysis. There isnt a magical contract fairy that creates infinite contracts for every company.

Yes there are more fixed price contracts, but if you fuck up like Starliner you are less likely to get another one.

And even if you could get it. Boeing peadership has clearly stated they are basically not really interested in that anymore. The have lost billions on fixed price contracts in space and military.

Boeing has not been able to get much new from NASA. Their moon lander was basically embaracing. They are in the nee private station buissness much.

One SLS gets finally mercy killed they will not be a prime contractor anymore.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#37

Post by throwAGIway »

autoexec wrote: post #20
throwAGIway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same regulatory process that allowed the Boeing Max and other catastrophic issues?

The good news is that if the regulations haven't been stringent enough to protect people, we can always increase them and also hold regulators that fail to do their jobs accountable.

Bad news is, when did that ever happen?

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#38

Post by cuSetanta »

tim333 wrote: post #36

I'm puzzled why they have helium leaks all over? I mean gas valves aren't really a new technology.

A certain leak rate is expected. Helium is a very small atom, and as such is used for leak testing of systems all the time. It is very good at finding gaps in a system.

Obviously the leaks here are a lot more serious. My experience of significant leaks in spacecraft propulsion would lead me to believe that there are welding issues. It can be very difficult to weld some of the materials used in these system, adding to the fact that they are all bound to be very thin walled. Cracks in welds can be hard to find, although I would expect every weld in a system like this to be X-ray inspected, and maybe also penetrant tested.

On the projects I have seen with issues like this, the main culprit has been steps in a procedure being skipped. Inspections signed off despite not being performed. I would highly doubt that this is the case here though, even with Boeings recent track record. Human spaceflight is treated different.

Re: Boeing Starliner Stuck on Space Station as More Leaks Discovered

#40

Post by delichon »

johnea wrote: post #25

> Boeing has been through hell and back ? Unfortunately, several hundred boeing product users didn't get the opportunity to come back. After the numerous launch scrubs, this one way ticket to the ISS was already a distinct possiblity. Maybe boeing won't be able to bring these astronauts back either. From a wider persoective, this really highlights why human space travel should be minimized. Outside of teenage boy spa…

The fragility of this planet is a very large reason to learn to survive outside of our nest. The more fragile the more important.
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