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Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

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Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#31

Post by vsuperpower2020 »

talldayo wrote: post #2

No shit, next you're going to tell me water is wet. If you're the sort of person that cannot decode what a "Performance Improvement Plan" means then you're going to be eaten by the industry alive. It's insane to me that we even need qualified people to reassure anyone about that.

From the way you write, I have a feeling you overestimate your savviness on "the industry". It's insane to me that you act this shocked and hysterical or someone not knowing all the bullshit "play" formalities that corporations have developed over time.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#32

Post by vsuperpower2020 »

lxgr wrote: post #13
talldayo wrote: post #2

No shit, next you're going to tell me water is wet. If you're the sort of person that cannot decode what a "Performance Improvement Plan" means then you're going to be eaten by the industry alive. It's insane to me that we even need qualified people to reassure anyone about that.

Not everyone is born with the innate ability to decode corporate doublespeak. I’m glad you know what a PIP is – how about a little less judgement for today’s 10000? https://xkcd.com/1053/

But I knew something before someone else did. How can I feel smart if I don't make a big deal out of it?

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#33

Post by jwsteigerwalt »

Both times I put someone on a pip it was heartbreaking. They were hired to do X, Y, and Z. Their cv indicated they were capable of X, Y, and Z. Both desperately needed the job. The pip was “you must complete X, Y, and Z each week. I can’t do your work for you, but I want you to be successful and I’m here to support you”. One was a payroll related position where the lens in which they were evaluated was clear (we need less than a certain number of paycheck errors each month).

Both failed… I would have much preferred keeping them to finding and training someone new.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#34

Post by throw141292 »

They are not all in bad faith. Maybe it depends on the company.

Once I had a really bad family issue. Won't go into it, but I took a bunch of time off. Coming back to work, I wasn't fully engaged, because there was a lot of chaos. So I got put on a pip.

My manager did this in good faith. He gave me a bunch of things to do, a bunch of milestones to meet, deadlines.

Honestly, it was a lifeline I needed. And better, I didn't have to guess on schedule, make promises on tight deadlines. So I worked specifically to the milestones. Helped people after things were done. Didn't take on extra, but added it to my notes. And I got through it.

Now I was worried. Was this just gathering evidence for something inevitable. Was it pre-decided? I just took it on good faith, did the work, and when I accomplished the goals, I was off the pip.

I was good after that. I think I'm better for it.

(that said, I've been told a second pip might be impossible to pull off)

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#35

Post by xnx »

mvdtnz wrote: post #18

I work with two people who survived PIPs and are now productive members of my teams. I wasn't the manager involved, but I think she made a good choice, both when she PIP'ed them and by passing them when they picked up their game. This is going to vary company to company, but from my perspective there's absolutely no reason a capable person can't get themselves out of a PIP and remain at a company.

> from my perspective there's absolutely no reason a capable person can't get themselves out of a PIP and remain at a company.

Many (possibly most) companies use PIPs as a pretense for a firing decision that has already been made. In those companies it is a fool's errand to try and improve your performance (because performance may have nothing to do with it). You cannot win. You should feel lucky that you only seem to have encountered legitimate pips where both sides are hoping for improved performance.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#36

Post by JohnMakin »

Better to be put on a PIP than this other weird thing that can happen sometimes, where you’re “unassigned” from a team, maybe due to layoffs or restructuring or performance, but report to essentially no one and have no real work to do. Eventually they expect you to get frustrated and quit, but it can be very difficult when you are in that situation to figure out where you stand.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#37

Post by ugh123 »

jwsteigerwalt wrote: post #33

Both times I put someone on a pip it was heartbreaking. They were hired to do X, Y, and Z. Their cv indicated they were capable of X, Y, and Z. Both desperately needed the job. The pip was “you must complete X, Y, and Z each week. I can’t do your work for you, but I want you to be successful and I’m here to support you”. One was a payroll related position where the lens in which they were evaluated was clear (we need…

Keeping low performers on a team (or ones that yield "failed projects" consistently) isn't good for the rest of the team and/or your own personal stress and productivity (as a manager).

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#38

Post by ugh123 »

throw141292 wrote: post #34

They are not all in bad faith. Maybe it depends on the company. Once I had a really bad family issue. Won't go into it, but I took a bunch of time off. Coming back to work, I wasn't fully engaged, because there was a lot of chaos. So I got put on a pip. My manager did this in good faith. He gave me a bunch of things to do, a bunch of milestones to meet, deadlines. Honestly, it was a lifeline I needed. And better, I d…

But was that really a pip? A "pip" in corporate culture is typically also combined with a chat with HR and official documentation written by, for, and with HR.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#39

Post by antisthenes »

vsuperpower2020 wrote: post #32
lxgr wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone is born with the innate ability to decode corporate doublespeak. I’m glad you know what a PIP is – how about a little less judgement for today’s 10000? https://xkcd.com/1053/

But I knew something before someone else did. How can I feel smart if I don't make a big deal out of it?

Maybe put them on a PIP or something.

Re: Pips are disingenuous. If you get put on one, find a new job as fast as possible

#40

Post by lazide »

nine_zeros wrote: post #12
talldayo wrote: post #2

No shit, next you're going to tell me water is wet. If you're the sort of person that cannot decode what a "Performance Improvement Plan" means then you're going to be eaten by the industry alive. It's insane to me that we even need qualified people to reassure anyone about that.

> If you're the sort of person that cannot decode what a "Performance Improvement Plan" means then you're going to be eaten by the industry alive. It's insane to me that we even need qualified people to reassure anyone about that. Business and employment works with good faith. A lot of people work with good faith. If your manager suddenly pulls a PIP, the good faith is broken but the managers continue to lie that PIP…

I’ve had to put about a dozen people on PIPs over the years. Of that, roughly 8 of them passed. 2 of them were promoted almost immediately afterwards (merit based), 4 of the rest within a year or two. Because they grew.

Of the other group, some were close. Some were not. All were having consistent performance issues for significant periods of time, and were not responding to any of the normal feedback mechanisms. One of them, decided to dig in and make it miserable for everyone.

The difference between the two groups? The first group took ownership of their actual performance, understood what the concerns were, and addressed them.

The second group, either refused to take any ownership of what was going on, was unable to for whatever reason, or like in the last really troublesome case, decided to blame and attempt to manipulate everyone else rather than face their actual issues.

The second group all eventually got fired.

I can tell which group you’d be in just from this post. But then, I doubt you’re surprised by that either.

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