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Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

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Re: Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

#31

Post by recoiledsnake »

grandalf wrote: post #21

As is obvious to most on HN, requiring an API (as opposed to a CSV file release schedule, etc.) is fairly meaningless, and most definitely not a presidential-caliber dictate. Some agencies' data might be far better suited to publication in a CSV and posted on a web page, for example. If a president could have a meaningful impact on this sort of thing, it would be in setting a high bar for the quality of information r…

>As is obvious to most on HN, requiring an API (as opposed to a CSV file release schedule, etc.) is fairly meaningless, and most definitely not a presidential-caliber dictate. Some agencies' data might be far better suited to publication in a CSV and posted on a web page, for example.

And for those cases, the agency can still justify why the CSV is better. There are always ways to get around the rules, see Section 508 rules for handicapped users.

>If a president could have a meaningful impact on this sort of thing, it would be in setting a high bar for the quality of information released by agencies. Any sort of requirement of this kind is completely absent from the announcement.

This is a step in the right direction, once the data is more accessible, the "users" (developers) can request for better data. The /DigitalStrategy page requirement is really good in my opinion and will make things simpler instead of the mishmash of sites buried in menus and behind authentication walls.

>So rather than being about transparency as it's being touted, the announcement is a celebration of high tech obfuscation. Soon the same sort of insulting, opaque, useless information spouted by officials in press conferences will be available via HTTP. This is at best a neutral day for democracy.

Whoever said this was about transparency in government? It's not about transparency per se.This is more about making information easier to access and find. In many cases agencies already have APIs, Webservices, data dumps, but they're really buried. How is making them more visible neutral?

Re: Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

#32

Post by dllthomas »

jroseattle wrote: post #30
dllthomas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They need to be sure they 1) are exposing everything they need to be exposing, 2) are hiding everything they need to be hiding, 3) are ready to handle potentially significant load, and 4) are robust against attack. Each of these is a little harder and/or a little more important in government than in a start-up (your start-up is probably less likely to get an informant killed because they posted the wrong thing than,…

Actually, that's just project management 101. The fact that it's government work doesn't make the steps to delivery any different than anywhere else, just the subject matter. Or, it shouldn't be any different -- though I know some claim otherwise.

You need to do 1, 2, 3, and 4 regardless of where you are, yes, but my point was that each of those is larger (in scope or import) in the context of a large, long running government agency than in the context of a startup or small company.

Remember that this has to accommodate the agency in the worst situation. The alternative would be to give separate deadlines for each agency in the memo, but that may be hard to determine from the outside (after all, "what are you going to do, how, and when?" is the first thing he's asking for) and you still have to wait for the last one to have your "Hey, everyone, there's data! Have at!" press conference.

Re: Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

#33

Post by chernevik »

mattdeboard wrote: post #27
grandalf wrote: post #21

As is obvious to most on HN, requiring an API (as opposed to a CSV file release schedule, etc.) is fairly meaningless, and most definitely not a presidential-caliber dictate. Some agencies' data might be far better suited to publication in a CSV and posted on a web page, for example. If a president could have a meaningful impact on this sort of thing, it would be in setting a high bar for the quality of information r…

Seems like the executive mandate is an "80% now" solution instead of waiting for perfection. At least they're thinking about the dissemination of information.

Seems like, if the President were interested in "now", they would have been working on this for going on 3.5 years, and would be actually publishing some APIs.

Re: Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

#34

Post by EricR23 »

This reminds me of the push here in NYC for all of the city agencies to open their data via an API. It's gotten better over time, but when the initiative first took flight, it was terrible. Some of the APIs flat out did not work, and the ones that did often returned all sorts of malformed, non-normalized data. It was a nightmare to work with. I'm curious if the government can do better.

Re: Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

#35

Post by chc »

chernevik wrote: post #33
mattdeboard wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like the executive mandate is an "80% now" solution instead of waiting for perfection. At least they're thinking about the dissemination of information.

Seems like, if the President were interested in "now", they would have been working on this for going on 3.5 years, and would be actually publishing some APIs.

I'm going to my apartment now. 3.5 years ago I would not have been going there. Now and 3.5 years ago are not the same thing. He's interested in doing things now, and since neither he nor I can turn back the clock, that's as good as either of us can do.

Re: Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

#36

Post by saraid216 »

grandalf wrote: post #21

As is obvious to most on HN, requiring an API (as opposed to a CSV file release schedule, etc.) is fairly meaningless, and most definitely not a presidential-caliber dictate. Some agencies' data might be far better suited to publication in a CSV and posted on a web page, for example. If a president could have a meaningful impact on this sort of thing, it would be in setting a high bar for the quality of information r…

I'm not disagreeing with your point, but I wonder if you actually read the memo from the CIO, or are just speaking ex cathedra about the requirements being given?

Re: Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

#37

Post by kjhughes »

I think this should be judged against the status quo as a positive development rather than against an abstract ideal as a flawed concept. Having seen too many clients stuck in analysis paralysis or blocked by political/turf issues while trying to develop corporate-wide standards (protocols, object models, etc), I'm just happy to see online access to public/government data advance in any way.

If we had to wait for higher-level, coordinating standards first, progress might never come.

Re: Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

#38

Post by polemic »

I'm reminded of this recent post by James Fee, talking about geodata, but I think it applies to the general case:

    "... The question was APIs or downloads... 
     Personally, I believe [data] is one of the best 
     ways for citizens to keep track of their government 
     (local to federal) ... APIs tend to deliver what 
     their “owners” want them to do. Raw data means 
     everyone has an opportunity to check each other’s 
     work. Of course, raw data can be manipulated as 
     well, but it is harder to obscure."
- http://spatiallyadjusted.com/2012/04/03/sharing-data-downloa...

I couldn't agree more. APIs are great, but are not the key to open government, for two reasons:

1. They don't provide simple and easy access for non technical individuals into raw information.

APIs shouldn't exist for querying historical datasets if the dataset is not already available in a static format. Release the data, then build an API if there is demand (or the private sector doesn't do it, better, for you).

2. Historical data access is poorly served by APIs.

There is no such thing as a good 'general use' API[1]. API's are appropriate for specific service based transactions that involve some level of processing. Examples:

    * VAT/GST number validation
    * Road closure notifications
    * Identity services
3. Bonus reason: government agencies suck at building APIs.

They're not good at determining what is genuinely high value to end users, they tend to prefer visible projects that can justify budget increases, over genuinely useful, but less easily communicated ones (cf. the US national highway system and pork barrel politics), and there is an entire industry of enterprise companies heavily invested in keeping it this way.

TL;DR Release the data, let users build the APIs. Everyone wins.

Bootnotes:

[1] I lie. That's exactly what publishing raw data at stable URLS on a website achieves.

Re: Barack Obama Directs All Federal Agencies to Have an API

#39

Post by kjhughes »

polemic wrote: post #38

I'm reminded of this recent post by James Fee, talking about geodata, but I think it applies to the general case: "... The question was APIs or downloads... Personally, I believe [data] is one of the best ways for citizens to keep track of their government (local to federal) ... APIs tend to deliver what their “owners” want them to do. Raw data means everyone has an opportunity to check each other’s work. Of course,…

Hmm, not sure API vs data is productive to see as a dichotomy.

Consider that an API might provide access to "raw" data directly.

I'd ask not for data over APIs but for more universally useful properties such as stability, currency, consistency, etc.

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