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AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

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Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#31

Post by esskay »

bitwize wrote: post #17
krasin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until ARM has a proper UEFI support, it's not a practical desktop/server with a few notable exceptions (Mac, Raspberry Pi) and only because there's so much support from the respective vendors. I know that there's some work happening about UEFI+ARM ( https://developer.arm.com/Architectures/Unified%20Extensible... ), but its support is very rare. The only example I can recall is Ampere Altra: https://www.jeffgeerling.c…

It's like I keep saying: the first Chinese manufacturer to churn out cheap SBCs with ServerReady support will make a killing as a true Pi killer. Anyone? Anyone? Pine64? Pine64?

We dont really need a Pi killer anymore. They've done a fine job of killing it themselves. Their community has shrunk massively due to low cost mini pc's being leaps and bounds better value than a Pi now. Their two fingers being put up at the hacker/tinkerer hobbyist market over the last few years combined with the IPO and shift to B2B has made it very clear where their priorities lie.

Unless you need the GPIO theres zero reason to overpay for a Pi 5 for example when you can pick up decent second hand mini pc's on ebay for a lower price.

Case in point, a couple of months ago I was able to nab two brand new still in box Dell Optiplex 3050's (Core i7 6700T 4 Cores, 2.8Ghz, 16GB RAM Win 10 hardware license, 256gb ssd, with mouse & keyboard) for £55 each delivered. The base 4gb model Pi 5 comes in at £80-£100 once you add power, storage and a case.

Sure, its not ARM but you're not likely to be doing anything that _needs_ ARM.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#32

Post by Wytwwww »

Cu3PO42 wrote: post #27
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #15

Do all CPUs and GPUs these days involve components made by TSMC? If so, is this unique - that a whole industry of relies on one company?

Intel still fabs their own CPUs, their dedicated Xe graphics are made by TSMC, though. Nvidia 30-series was fabbed by Samsung. So there is some competition in the high-end space, but not much. All of these companies rely on buying lithography machines from ASML, though.

>Intel still fabs their own CPUs

Isn't Lunar Lake made by TSMC? Supposedly they have comparable efficiency to AMD/Apple/Qualcomm at the cost of making their fab business even less profitable

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#33

Post by KeplerBoy »

aurareturn wrote: post #4

15% IPC boost is mildly disappointing. It will be significantly slower in ST than M4, and even more so against the M4 Pro/Max.

I wouldn't be sure about that. Isn't apple silicon performance mostly benchmarked using Geekbench?

AMD claims +35% IPC improvements in that specific benchmark, due to improvement in the AVX512 pipeline.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#34

Post by aurareturn »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #33
aurareturn wrote: post #4

15% IPC boost is mildly disappointing. It will be significantly slower in ST than M4, and even more so against the M4 Pro/Max.

I wouldn't be sure about that. Isn't apple silicon performance mostly benchmarked using Geekbench? AMD claims +35% IPC improvements in that specific benchmark, due to improvement in the AVX512 pipeline.

AMD claims +35% IPC improvement in AES subtest of Geekbench 6. It's not the entire Geekbench 6 CPU suite. It's deceptive.

Overall GB6 improvement is likely around 10-15% only because that's how much IPC improved while clock speed remains the same.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#35

Post by AlfeG »

gautamcgoel wrote: post #3

Surprisingly not that much to be excited about IMO. AMD isn't using TSMC's latest node and the CPUs only officially support DDR5 speeds up to 5600MHz (yes, I know that you can use faster RAM). The CPUs are also using the previous-gen graphics architecture, RDNA2.

> DDR5 speeds up to 56000MHz (yes, I know that you can use faster RAM)

Not sure that I actually CAN. 56 GHz is already a lot.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#36

Post by wtallis »

lmz wrote: post #25
dhx wrote: post #18

How are the 24x PCIe 5.0 lanes (~90GB/s) of the 9950X allocated? The article makes it appear as: * 16x PCIe 5.0 lanes for "graphics use" connected directly to the 9950X (~63GB/s). * 1x PCIe 5.0 lane for an M.2 port connected directly to the 9950X (~4GB/s). Motherboard manufacturers seemingly could repurpose "graphics use" PCIe 5.0 lanes for additional M.2 ports. * 7x PCIe 5.0 lanes connected to the X870E chipset (~28…

It's usually x16/x4/x4 for GPU/M.2/Chipset. You can check the diagrams from the current x670 boards for info.

AMD's previous socket was usually x16/x4/x4 for GPU/M.2/chipset. For AM5, they added another four lanes, so it's usually x16/x4+x4/x4 for GPU/(2x)M.2/chipset, unless the board is doing something odd with providing lanes for Thunderbolt ports or something like that.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#37

Post by aurareturn »

muxator wrote: post #10
aurareturn wrote: post #4

15% IPC boost is mildly disappointing. It will be significantly slower in ST than M4, and even more so against the M4 Pro/Max.

How come is a 15% IPC increase generation for generation a disappointing result? There might be greener pastures, I agree, but a 15% increase year over year for the quality factor of a product is nothing to be disappointed of. It's good execution, even more so in a mature and competitive sector such as microelectronics.

It's not year over year. It's 2 years.

It's disappointing because M4 is significantly ahead. I would expect Zen to make a bigger leap to catch up.

Also, this small leap opens up for Intel's Arrow Lake to take the lead.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#38

Post by arp242 »

aurareturn wrote: post #30
KingOfCoders wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[If you're a laptop user, scroll down the thread for laptop Rust compile times, M3 Pro looks great] You're misguided. Apple has excellent Notebook CPUs. Apple has great IPC. But AMD and Intel have easily faster CPUs. https://opendata.blender.org/benchmarks/query/?compute_type=... Blender Benchmark AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (16 core) 560.8 Apple M2 Ultra (24 cores) 501.82 Apple M3 Max (12 cores) 408.27 Apple M3 Pro 226.46 App…

That seems wrong. Though Blender may have an optimization for avx512 but not for SME or Neon. But the vast majority will use GPUs to do rendering for Blender. Try SPEC or its close consumer counterpart, Geekbench. As an anecdote, all my Python and Node.js applications run faster on Apple Silicon than Zen4. Even my multithread Go apps seem to run better on Apple Silicon.

Now you're just asserting things unencumbered by even the slightest evidence.

On Passmark Apple CPUs are pretty far down the list.

On Geekbench I gave up after scrolling a few pages.

And "run faster on Apple Silicon than Zen4" means nothing. On the low end you have fairly cheap Ryzen 3 laptop chips, and on the high end you have Threadripper behemoths.

Re: AMD Unveils Ryzen 9000 CPUs for Desktop, Zen 5

#40

Post by walterbell »

krasin wrote: post #9
aurareturn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because x86 chips are no longer leading in the client. ARM chips are. Specifically, Apple chips. Though Qualcomm has huge potential leapfrog AMD/Intel chips in a few generations too.

Until ARM has a proper UEFI support, it's not a practical desktop/server with a few notable exceptions (Mac, Raspberry Pi) and only because there's so much support from the respective vendors. I know that there's some work happening about UEFI+ARM ( https://developer.arm.com/Architectures/Unified%20Extensible... ), but its support is very rare. The only example I can recall is Ampere Altra: https://www.jeffgeerling.c…

Thanks to ex-Apple Nuvia/Oryon ("Qualcomm Snapdragon X Elite"), Arm laptops will launch in the next few months from Microsoft, Dell, HP, Lenovo, Asus and other OEMs, with UEFI support for Windows and in-progress support for Linux, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40422286
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