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The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

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Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#31

Post by pseudo0 »

MaysonL wrote: post #27
pseudo0 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That white men in particular have a hard time dealing with a more level playing field is pathetic. All men want is a level playing field. Colleges have been discriminating against white and Asian men for decades. SCOTUS finally slapped them down, and colleges immediately started scheming to find ways to be covertly racist through proxies for race. Many colleges stopped using SAT scores, making admissions more subje…

All men want is a level playing field, a few steps higher than the level playing field women play on. (Which they had up until not very long ago, and still have to a large extent).

Viewing things through a "battle of the genders" lens like that is toxic. The men getting screwed over today are completely different individuals than the men who benefited from unfair policies or norms in previous generations. You aren't getting revenge by retaliating against young men, just hurting innocent bystanders.

Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#32

Post by skhunted »

pseudo0 wrote: post #25
skhunted wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in graduate school in the late 90s I took a flight home for the summer break. I was reading a math research paper during the flight. An elderly lady that sat next to me and asked if was reading a mathematics paper. I said yes. She said that she wanted to study math in college but in those days she wasn’t allowed to. She ended up in accounting. She was still upset over that injustice. That men can’t handle…

> That white men in particular have a hard time dealing with a more level playing field is pathetic. All men want is a level playing field. Colleges have been discriminating against white and Asian men for decades. SCOTUS finally slapped them down, and colleges immediately started scheming to find ways to be covertly racist through proxies for race. Many colleges stopped using SAT scores, making admissions more subje…

I’m not a boomer. Born in the 70s. I’m a white a male who teaches in higher education. White men have a more or less equal opportunity in terms of going to college. Until recently college admissions were on the decline and most colleges were way less choosy than in the past. Men are not oppressed. They just aren’t coddled as much as in the past. Men don’t seem to be able to deal with living in a society in which they aren’t privileged. It’s pathetic.

Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#33

Post by skhunted »

safety1st wrote: post #23
nradov wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please, let's lose the persecution complex. If there is any discrimination against men happening in academia it's in the clown show departments that no one cares about anyway. As for "struggles", study history. The minor struggles that modern men in developed countries deal with are nothing compared to what our ancestors faced. I was never drafted and sent to assault the beach at Normandy.

I mean, the Chronicle of Higher Education put out an explainer a year or two titled "The Male Enrollment Crisis." Not "Is there a male enrollment crisis?" because this is a fact that is not in dispute. Males are walking away from college in droves, they are 40% of new enrollments and dropping. https://connect.chronicle.com/rs/931-EKA-218/images/MaleEnro... In case your main way of assessing information is its tribal…

There is an enrollment crisis. It is not because colleges are denying entry by men. It is because men are not even attempting to go to college. Men don’t seem to be able to deal with a society in which they are not coddled as much as in they were in the past.

Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#34

Post by chiefalchemist »

matrix87 wrote: post #29
rickydroll wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're onto something. My take away is that you talking about elite overproduction ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elite_overproduction ). FTA: Elite overproduction is a concept developed by Peter Turchin that describes the condition of a society that is producing too many potential elite members relative to its ability to absorb them into the power structure.[1][2][3] This, he hypothesizes, is a cause for so…

for some reason in this culture, people think that working in an office, having a degree, living in a big metro area, etc makes them "elite". nobody ever called these people "elite" except themselves

That's part of the overproduction process, isn't it? That is, those at the top have those in the middle and midddle-top believing they're on the inside. Nah. They're the suckers. They're the exploited. They're where the wealth is being extracted from. Given human biases and blind spots, no one in that positions wants to admit they've been played.

Geez, look at the article. Written by a leftie for The Left and "blaming" The Right when in fact The Right has it right. That is, "we're done being suckered."

Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#35

Post by maxrecursion »

skhunted wrote: post #33
safety1st wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the Chronicle of Higher Education put out an explainer a year or two titled "The Male Enrollment Crisis." Not "Is there a male enrollment crisis?" because this is a fact that is not in dispute. Males are walking away from college in droves, they are 40% of new enrollments and dropping. https://connect.chronicle.com/rs/931-EKA-218/images/MaleEnro... In case your main way of assessing information is its tribal…

There is an enrollment crisis. It is not because colleges are denying entry by men. It is because men are not even attempting to go to college. Men don’t seem to be able to deal with a society in which they are not coddled as much as in they were in the past.

Ironically, your posts are a perfect example of the utter derision some (most of society) give when discussing problems men are facing. This is one reason men are suffering from so many problems women aren't such as way higher rates of depression, suicide, and drug overdose.

Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#36

Post by skhunted »

maxrecursion wrote: post #35
skhunted wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an enrollment crisis. It is not because colleges are denying entry by men. It is because men are not even attempting to go to college. Men don’t seem to be able to deal with a society in which they are not coddled as much as in they were in the past.

Ironically, your posts are a perfect example of the utter derision some (most of society) give when discussing problems men are facing. This is one reason men are suffering from so many problems women aren't such as way higher rates of depression, suicide, and drug overdose.

There is a crisis with men. But it stems, I believe, from not being as coddled as they once were in terms of privilege. An equal playing field is not something men seem to be able to deal with. A solution will not be obtained by misidentifying the causes. What women and minorities have dealt with for centuries in America is far greater than the perceived slights white men deal with today. It is pathetic that they seem unable to deal with an equalization of the playing field.

Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#37

Post by safety1st »

skhunted wrote: post #36
maxrecursion wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, your posts are a perfect example of the utter derision some (most of society) give when discussing problems men are facing. This is one reason men are suffering from so many problems women aren't such as way higher rates of depression, suicide, and drug overdose.

There is a crisis with men. But it stems, I believe, from not being as coddled as they once were in terms of privilege. An equal playing field is not something men seem to be able to deal with. A solution will not be obtained by misidentifying the causes. What women and minorities have dealt with for centuries in America is far greater than the perceived slights white men deal with today. It is pathetic that they see…

It is beyond me how you can write these words and not recognize that they are bigoted.

You keep saying, over and over again, that as a broad generalization you simply believe white men are inferior to everyone else. That in itself is a racist and sexist statement - you're asserting that all people of a particular race and gender are inferior, because of their race and gender.

It doesn't matter if you believe this is the case because of some historical occurrence, it's still discriminatory and just as offensive as stereotyping and discriminating against anybody else would be.

It's not good to assume anyone is inferior and in your words "pathetic" because of their race and gender. I can't believe we still have to tell people this in 2024.

Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#38

Post by skhunted »

safety1st wrote: post #37
skhunted wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a crisis with men. But it stems, I believe, from not being as coddled as they once were in terms of privilege. An equal playing field is not something men seem to be able to deal with. A solution will not be obtained by misidentifying the causes. What women and minorities have dealt with for centuries in America is far greater than the perceived slights white men deal with today. It is pathetic that they see…

It is beyond me how you can write these words and not recognize that they are bigoted. You keep saying, over and over again, that as a broad generalization you simply believe white men are inferior to everyone else. That in itself is a racist and sexist statement - you're asserting that all people of a particular race and gender are inferior, because of their race and gender. It doesn't matter if you believe this is…

[flagged]

Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#39

Post by not_your_mentat »

skhunted wrote: post #22
anonfordays wrote: post #16

There's a 500 pound gorilla in the room: Young men have collectively checked out of a society that has nothing but contempt for them. When the supermajority in academia have nothing good to say about you, opine about how "toxic" your existence is, and openly deride your struggles... who would want to spend four years and tens of thousands of dollars to be "lectured" by those people? When men are suffering from record…

When I was in graduate school in the late 90s I took a flight home for the summer break. I was reading a math research paper during the flight. An elderly lady that sat next to me and asked if was reading a mathematics paper. I said yes. She said that she wanted to study math in college but in those days she wasn’t allowed to. She ended up in accounting. She was still upset over that injustice. That men can’t handle…

Hey. Man here. I grew up with 4 sisters. They're remarkable, smart, capable, and accomplished. I was sold a line that I thoroughly believed well into my 20s that because women can do everything a man can do plus childbirth that my existence was both unnecessary and unwanted. Girls around me in high school wore shirts saying things like "Menstruation. Menopause. All our problems start with men." I'm not in their heads. I can't divine their intent. But it hurt.

I love my sisters. I want to live in a world where they're able to live joyful and fulfilled lives, where their contributions are taken just as seriously as any other competent contribution. I would fight and die for that. I also think that, after decades of trying to figure out what my value is as a non female, I've determined that I'm also human and that I also have a right to life and the chance for fulfillment and having my contributions taken on their own merits, just like my sisters.

I think we've inherited a system that's run with a multigenerational finger on the scale and rather than remove the finger from the scale we've added more fingers to the scale. Standard distributions are everywhere. There will always be others who are underserved or over served. I can't account for all men, but the messaging that I internalized as a child was directed to all men, and whether it not it was intended for harm it left me feeling pretty disenfranchised. Again, I didn't speak for all men, but if there's a possibility that we've disenfranchised half of the species that seems like a problem worth addressing.

Re: The Political Causes of the College Enrollment Crisis

#40

Post by skhunted »

not_your_mentat wrote: post #39
skhunted wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was in graduate school in the late 90s I took a flight home for the summer break. I was reading a math research paper during the flight. An elderly lady that sat next to me and asked if was reading a mathematics paper. I said yes. She said that she wanted to study math in college but in those days she wasn’t allowed to. She ended up in accounting. She was still upset over that injustice. That men can’t handle…

Hey. Man here. I grew up with 4 sisters. They're remarkable, smart, capable, and accomplished. I was sold a line that I thoroughly believed well into my 20s that because women can do everything a man can do plus childbirth that my existence was both unnecessary and unwanted. Girls around me in high school wore shirts saying things like "Menstruation. Menopause. All our problems start with men." I'm not in their heads…

And for thousands of years the problems women faced have been caused primarily by men. Now there is “liberation” in some western countries and men have a problem. They think, incorrectly, that they are oppressed or otherwise being discriminated against. It is laughable that this view exists. It’s like whites in the South decrying blacks no longer being slaves and thinking as a result of the new reality that they are now oppressed.
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