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The Case Against Gmail (2020)

migadu.com

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Re: The Case Against Gmail (2020)

#31
post #18

How much safer is "owning" your domain? An anecdote: A few years ago I used to have my own domain. Then one day my credit card expired, the new one did not work and my account got frozen. I fixed it, then I forgot to actually extend the domain and it stopped working. Of course, no incoming email, no access to my old mail, etc. Fortunately I could buy the domain again after a couple of weeks of time, so it did not end…

Domains usually have a 30 day period after expiry where only you can buy it back.

It is important to avoid circular dependencies though. My Fastmail account has one Fastmail-managed email address that my domain registrar's emails are configured to go to.

Re: The Case Against Gmail (2020)

#32
I agree with this post so hard. Email is the foundation for people's life online. In fact I am working on building a better self hosted mail platform in my free time because I believe in having the freedom to move your email to wherever you choose.

Running your own mail server has a bad stigma around it that doesn't have to be true. I understand it is not a task for everyone, but it doesn't have to this don't bother just use Gmail, Fastmail, Protonmail etc etc mentality. I have been running my own since 2002 and I would never consider doing anything else for such an important part of my life.

The big mail providers have built a walled garden to hold your email communications hostage and they want you to believe that you can't send email without them. There are many of us that know that is bullshit and it is time to move the needle back. I am excited to read Run Your Own Mail Server by Michael W Lucas when it comes out in Aug.

https://mwl.io/nonfiction/tools#ryoms

Re: The Case Against Gmail (2020)

#33

Losing my gmail would be crippling. I feel existential dread even considering it.

Do you mean losing access to the archive of past messages stored in your gmail account? If not, can you explain why it would be crippling to switch to another email service?

Most online accounts are tied to my email as an id. Suddenly losing my gmail would mean losing those accounts too. I'm fairly certain I could recover eventually, but it would be a disaster.

The message archive is not a consideration.

Switching to another service is definitely indicated, but it would be months of toil to migrate all the aforementioned accounts.

Re: The Case Against Gmail (2020)

#34
post #6

> We believe, any entity having access to so much personal information is a great risk to world peace, freedom and democracy. I often seen privacy advocates make sweeping statements like this, but I have a hard time understanding their concerns because I haven't really gotten an answer as to how they see it happening. EDIT: Also to be clear, I think it is completely valid to object to data collection on moral / ethic…

With only metadata, just who is mailing who, you can build pretty useful social graphs of people[0].

[0] https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metad...

Re: The Case Against Gmail (2020)

#36
The problem with email self hosting is that the internet wasn't built for people, it was built for organizations that employ dedicated staff.

Let's say you wanted to host email with your own domain for the rest of your life. It's likely at some point you'd lose the domain.

Re: The Case Against Gmail (2020)

#37

The case FOR gmail: 1. it solved spam 2. it solved finding specific emails in the haystack of your years/decades of emails It's hard to overstate how important 1 is, for anyone who doesn't know how mail was 20 years ago. Google was able to leverage its dominance (in concert with the other huge hosts like Hotmail) to impose significant changes to email infrastructure, by requiring stuff like SPF and DKIM. Frankly, oth…

It solved spam -- but is also the largest source of spam on the planet.

Re: The Case Against Gmail (2020)

#38
The idea that Google gets value from gmail user data is simply false. The pushback from when Google first tried to do ads on gmail was enough to kill the idea permanently.

Gmail is a legacy of Old Google, like Maps -- it serves no profit motive, just engineers building something cool for everyone with some sort of flimsy pretext of "it keeps users in our ecosystem" tacked on to it. Google now does have a premium-ish offering, "Google One", in an attempt to get some money out of gmail, but really it's just an artifact.

Companies giving things away for free or steeply discounted from the cost of goods sold is a perennial issue when it comes to centralized capital; Google has a pool of infinite money (search ads) and it uses that to buy its way into a bunch of markets where it is incredibly difficult to compete. Maybe early on you could have stopped Youtube or Maps based on standing antitrust law, but personal email has always been given away for free long before Google got into the business, so a product would have to offer something phenomenal to break into that space.

Doesn't utterly stop it; for example Google has had various versions of chat over the years but they have been roundly whooped by Slack.

Re: The Case Against Gmail (2020)

#39
post #6

> We believe, any entity having access to so much personal information is a great risk to world peace, freedom and democracy. I often seen privacy advocates make sweeping statements like this, but I have a hard time understanding their concerns because I haven't really gotten an answer as to how they see it happening. EDIT: Also to be clear, I think it is completely valid to object to data collection on moral / ethic…

I'll take a stab at it, since I'm one of those privacy advocates (and also prone to making sweeping statements like this).

Let's say Alice and Bob are doing life and emailing each other about normal life stuff. Charlie runs their email server.

Charlie also runs an advertising business to fund his email server. He somehow reads (not necessarily manually, but the details don't matter) the emails coming through his server to learn what people are more likely to be interested in buying. Everyone benefits, right? Alice and Bob get free email, the advertisers get well-targeted ads, and Charlie gets paid by the advertisers.

Well, along comes the Police. They know that Charlie is able to access contents of emails going through his server, because it's how he funds his email server. The police would need a warrant to search Alice and Bob's communication for something that might incriminate them in an investigation, but Charlie doesn't need a warrant. The police strike a deal with Charlie of mutual benefit. Information for another revenue stream. But still, the police are upholders of justice and only use this "email tap" for good.

Time goes on and our glorious democracy erodes into an autocratic state (ask Germany - it happens!). Suddenly our justice-loving Police have become the Gestapo, but money talks and it's in Charlie's interest to stay on the Gestapo's good side, so the email tap remains in place and we have Alice and Bob, good people that they are, collaborating on how to resist the autocratic state, which gets funneled straight to the Gestapo. Bad guys win.

Essentially it boils down to this: the means for the public to resist tyranny is a necessary prerequisite for freedom. Conversely, the more power (and information is power, especially personal information) is centralized, the more impactful a potential hostile takeover becomes, and the easier to orchestrate (much easier to infiltrate/control one source of information than thousands).

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