Live data from Hacker News

How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

unterminated.com

31–40 of 272 posts

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#31

Is a fax implicitly an analog transmission? Or is there a digital data stream somewhere beneath the layer sending the photo that could be used like a modem?

Very, very old faxes used to be purely analog. Since dial-up was invented, however, faxes are fully digital. If you've ever used a fax machine, you'll notice the classic dial-up handshake noises. Faxes are modems and vice-versa: any PC with a modem could send and receive faxes. It was a commonly advertised feature back in the day.

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#32
post #21
post #16

In my younger years, I had to pull a dBase 2 database off a CP/M desktop into an MS-DOS portable. I ended up configuring a serial cable, and running PROCOMM on the PC, set 9600/n/8/1 on both ports, then printed from dBase 2 and set PROCOMM to record the session to a file. It would lose characters if I let it run too long without a pause to write to a floppy, so I would ctrl-s/q on the CP/M side. I guess nobody else h…

I think in this particular (macbook) case the problem was lack of proper software. Yet, I recall if there was modem installed, a terminal software had to be present as well.

The CP/M side didn't have any terminal software. Both sides had methods to set 9600/n/8/1 on the printer device.

On the PC side, without PROCOMM, it would be possible to "COPY COM1: FOO.TXT" but I don't know how 9600/n/8/1 could be set in advance (IIRC setting it as a printer to force the baud rate altered the device so it could not be read).

Generally speaking, all of the pre-PC microcomputers implemented serial ports, which is the first choice in pulling data off of them (including binary data with XMODEM and its variants).

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#33
post #15

Very creative and interesting ie 'use whatever tools/knowledge you have' but: > The internal hard drive uses SCSI with an unusual connector. This is literally never an issue as old connectors are easily obtainable (in particular 'in this day and age'). > Adapting it didn't seem straightforward, and we weren't confident the old file system (HFS) would be easy to read from a modern system. Simple search pulled this up.…

Author here. Admittedly I didn't explore this avenue very deeply. I was more focused on accomplishing this with parts I had on hand.

A quick search yielded this result, which does confirm it's absolutely possible to adapt the drive: https://vintagemacmuseum.com/reading-powerbook-2-5-scsi-hard...

(My way might be more fun. Ha.)

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#34
post #18
post #15

Very creative and interesting ie 'use whatever tools/knowledge you have' but: > The internal hard drive uses SCSI with an unusual connector. This is literally never an issue as old connectors are easily obtainable (in particular 'in this day and age'). > Adapting it didn't seem straightforward, and we weren't confident the old file system (HFS) would be easy to read from a modern system. Simple search pulled this up.…

Linux will mount HFS drivers and files like nothing... This setup it's overcomplicated and hackey, but dumb in the end. You can mount old SCSI drivers with modern adaptors just fine, and Linux/BSD will either mount or extract HFS images with unar (I think) or hfsutils/hfstools. Or just spawn ymodem/zmodem compatible software (as he used a Fax setup for modem) and the problem would be solved in minutes.

Also it's a 30 year old Apple laptop - there are tons of resources available on how to do things with them.

But, this worked with what he had at the time, so, eh, fun times.

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#35
post #29
post #12

Arn't there a serial (COM) port available on that laptop ? It was kind of ubiquitous at those days. This website [1] says there were two of them. Solving the probem with Zmodem would be trivial. The software (terminal) is already there, it seems. 1. https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_duo/specs/mac_p...

Apple used 8-pin mini DIN connectors for serial. The author might not have had the right cable.

There are plenty of mini-DIN connectors and serial cables for mac on ebay.

You need just three wires for serial line to work. I would strip the wires and plug them in without any connector. :)

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#36
post #12

Arn't there a serial (COM) port available on that laptop ? It was kind of ubiquitous at those days. This website [1] says there were two of them. Solving the probem with Zmodem would be trivial. The software (terminal) is already there, it seems. 1. https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_duo/specs/mac_p...

Author here. It's a good question. It probably does, but I admit I'm not familiar with Zmodem. I don't recall finding a terminal application installed on the laptop, but maybe I just wasn't looking hard enough.

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#37
post #21
post #16

In my younger years, I had to pull a dBase 2 database off a CP/M desktop into an MS-DOS portable. I ended up configuring a serial cable, and running PROCOMM on the PC, set 9600/n/8/1 on both ports, then printed from dBase 2 and set PROCOMM to record the session to a file. It would lose characters if I let it run too long without a pause to write to a floppy, so I would ctrl-s/q on the CP/M side. I guess nobody else h…

I think in this particular (macbook) case the problem was lack of proper software. Yet, I recall if there was modem installed, a terminal software had to be present as well.

Is it so hard to write your own program which would just read a file stream and send it to a port? Maybe also split it into smaller frames with CRC hashes attached.

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#38

> I try a bunch of different OCR programs, but can't find any that can transcribe the document with 100% accuracy. They often confuse certain letters or numbers (like 0 and C, 9 and 4, 0 and D). Sometimes they omit characters, sometimes they introduce new ones. I try different font sizes and different fonts, but it doesn't matter. I decided to OCR a hex dump from an old computer magazine a while back and fixed this p…

This is great! I'm amazed that someone else has solved the same problem in a different context. Good stuff.

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#39
post #12

Arn't there a serial (COM) port available on that laptop ? It was kind of ubiquitous at those days. This website [1] says there were two of them. Solving the probem with Zmodem would be trivial. The software (terminal) is already there, it seems. 1. https://everymac.com/systems/apple/powerbook_duo/specs/mac_p...

You can indeed use xmodem or zmodem, and use a macbinary encoding to transfer any file you want in either direction. Does require you to have something that can receive over serial on the PowerBook. ClarisWorks could definitely do it, but office probably has exactly the same 'receive document' feature.

Alternatively, you can use the serial port to 'print' to, and just capture the serial output. It's essentially just unidirectional text transfer but that's enough for what the author intended to do.

On the other hand, faxing and OCR'ing is pretty cool.

Re: How to copy a file from a 30-year-old laptop

#40
post #32
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in this particular (macbook) case the problem was lack of proper software. Yet, I recall if there was modem installed, a terminal software had to be present as well.

The CP/M side didn't have any terminal software. Both sides had methods to set 9600/n/8/1 on the printer device. On the PC side, without PROCOMM, it would be possible to "COPY COM1: FOO.TXT" but I don't know how 9600/n/8/1 could be set in advance (IIRC setting it as a printer to force the baud rate altered the device so it could not be read). Generally speaking, all of the pre-PC microcomputers implemented serial por…

Yes, you can transfer files via COM port in MS-DOS using COPY command, but errors may occur. :) Also you have to switch port to 8-bit binary mode and turn off flow control. Don't remember how to do that exactly. Default was 7 bit XON/XOFF, AFAIR.
Post reply on HN