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Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

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Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#31
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Kagi dependant on Google for their results? Doesn't seem tenable in the long-term to me.

Are you thinking of ddg? Afaik kagi runs their own independent engine from scratch.

>Our own index of the finest results augmented by the results from the best search engines on the market.

https://kagi.com/

Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Kagi dependant on Google for their results? Doesn't seem tenable in the long-term to me.

Are you thinking of ddg? Afaik kagi runs their own independent engine from scratch.

DDG uses Bing. Them blocking trackers except when they come from Microsoft (because of this search engine deal) is why I don't really care about using DDG.

You can use bangs to search on Google, but that's not the default.

Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#33
post #7

I was afraid of this. Now, it's a matter of time before Google search will get even worse as SEO hustlers push more of their useless crap to the top now that internal algorithm data has been published. Guess I should look into that Kagi thing people keep mentioning.

What could be worse than recipe pages that are 20 pages worth of text with the recipe hiding somewhere among the text?

Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#34
In not too many years, the average user will be prompting to get their needs met, rather than searching a flawed search system, wading through pages of sponsored and SEO-gamified links, opening up multiple tabs to try to dig out the details from sites hustling whatever they hustle, and then trying to read to get their needs met. Google sees the writing on the wall, which is going towards a prompt-based direct ask system mediated by an LLM. It definitely is far from perfect now, but the writing is on the wall. Search and SEO are both going to be relics of a bygone past in not too many years.

Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't Kagi dependant on Google for their results? Doesn't seem tenable in the long-term to me.

Are you thinking of ddg? Afaik kagi runs their own independent engine from scratch.

Kagi is a Meta Search engine (it uses other search engines API e.g. Google, Yandex, Brave Search, Marginalia, ...) + it has its own (tiny) index, their own index mostly consits of their "Small Web" pages.

Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#36
post #34

In not too many years, the average user will be prompting to get their needs met, rather than searching a flawed search system, wading through pages of sponsored and SEO-gamified links, opening up multiple tabs to try to dig out the details from sites hustling whatever they hustle, and then trying to read to get their needs met. Google sees the writing on the wall, which is going towards a prompt-based direct ask sys…

I don't know. There were recently some documents released on how OpenAI was soliciting companies to integrate their product recommendations more deeply into the training data. This is obvious a huge way to monetize chatgpt-like products. Rather than SEO optimized sites gathering the ad revenue with click bait and gamification, OpenAI will collect the revenue themselves.

At the end of this enshittification, users will be looking for other options. Imagine a salesman that is ignoring the elephant in the room to tell you that if you bought this brand of shoes, you would run faster instead of giving tips on the skills to learn to be a better runner.

Search is a great way to find high-quality references and non-hallucinated answers by tweaking the keywords slightly. A salesman-like LLM might be pushing products when you just need information. ChatGPT's authority is going to dwindle, and search is a good tool to find authoritative sources

Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#37
post #8
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But would be difficult to build a lot of websites which all meet the threshold for specific keywords. The thresholds don't have to be particularly low. In fact it's better if they require a certain amount of work to meet. So maybe only a relatively small number of websites would qualify for a specific niche keyword but the idea is that, among those, they are ranked randomly. You'd probably have to use AI to figure ou…

Do you remember those autogenerated websites that were just giant lists of all words? Those disappeared many years ago, but if you made search ranking random, they'd come right back.

I honestly think the problem can't really be solved because of the adversarial relationships involved. But if there was more than one search engine with significant marketshare maybe it would be easier to route around the problem.

Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#38
post #26

Any good summaries about what was revealed in the leak?

The main takeaway for me is that Google is caught lying. Many things were already assumed but Google used to deny them. - They claimed that clicks were not a ranking factor, it turns out it is. - Also turns out that they are using Chrome data for ranking purposes (Not good for the ongoing lawsuit) - There is also a field called something like "is small personal site" and it presumed that those sites are penalized. Yo…

didn’t they just leak the schema? we know they may be tracking that information but we don’t know how it affects the model

Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#39
post #33
post #7

I was afraid of this. Now, it's a matter of time before Google search will get even worse as SEO hustlers push more of their useless crap to the top now that internal algorithm data has been published. Guess I should look into that Kagi thing people keep mentioning.

What could be worse than recipe pages that are 20 pages worth of text with the recipe hiding somewhere among the text?

They could split it in multiple pages instead of a single page! Imagine having to click “next part” >10 times just to see if you eventually end up with a section that contains the actual recipe

Re: Google confirms the leaked Search documents are real

#40
post #39
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could be worse than recipe pages that are 20 pages worth of text with the recipe hiding somewhere among the text?

They could split it in multiple pages instead of a single page! Imagine having to click “next part” >10 times just to see if you eventually end up with a section that contains the actual recipe

And unskippable ads after every third image. Then the moment you get to the final image there’s an email registration wall. It has a little X button that doesn’t work on iOS.
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