Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now • Hacker News Board

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#31

Post by bgrainger » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:21 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #11

aninteger wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like this is shaping up to be the "Maddox Visual Studio, the best Visual Studio on the internet". Capital letters, black backgrounds, now we just need insulting error messages full of manliness.

I might be OK with the ALL CAPS menu titles if I understood the rationale behind them. Has this been discussed officially anywhere? Because if not, I can't get beyond the nagging idea that MS is playing some kind of joke that I don't get, and that's a distraction that I don't need.

There's a registry value you can set to go back to normal (title case) menus: http://www.richard-banks.org/2012/06/how-to-prevent-visual-s...

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#32

Post by bgrainger » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:26 AM UTC

josephcooney wrote: post #30

mark-r wrote: post #10

Have they backpedaled at all on their decision to not build executables for XP? I couldn't find any mention on the Jason Zander blog, so I assume not.

AFAIK this restriction only existed in the 'express' versions of Visual Studio 2012.

This OP is referring to this issue: https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/details/...

The C++ Runtime Library doesn't support XP, so C++ programs compiled with Visual Studio 2012 can't run on Windows XP. (It is possible to work around this by statically linking and overriding some CRT functions, as detailed here: http://tedwvc.wordpress.com/)

You can keep using the Visual Studio 2010 C++ compiler (and target XP), but then you can't use any of the new C++11 features supported in VS2012.

.NET Framework 4.5 RC also doesn't support XP (see "System requirements" at http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=2990...), so C#/VB.NET programs targeting .NET 4.5 can't be run on XP either.

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#33

Post by jasomill » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 6:58 AM UTC

cpeterso wrote: post #20

apike wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it strange that they've moved to all-caps for menu titles (FILE, EDIT, VIEW...), especially considering Microsoft's recent uses of good typography. All-caps is a tradeoff where you take away the identifiable shape of a word to make it draw more attention. You could argue that menu titles would be the absolute worst place to use all-caps.

The ALL CAPS MENU TITLES are supposedly "more Metro-like", even though many Metro screenshots are all-lowercase and the Metro motto is "content before chrome." I'm surprised Microsoft hasn't made their menu titles disappear until you move the mouse near them (like Mac OS X's X-+ window buttons). That sounds like the "hide the UI so it looks good but is less usable" style Microsoft likes.

There's an extension[1] that does this. I'm now tempted to install it, at least until I find a way to back out the SCREAMING new menus. With that said, I've been using the beta for a couple months and it seems both snappier and more stable than 2010.

[1] http://visualstudiogallery.msdn.microsoft.com/bdbcffca-32a6-...

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#34

Post by jasomill » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 7:23 AM UTC

bgrainger wrote: post #31

CamperBob2 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be OK with the ALL CAPS menu titles if I understood the rationale behind them. Has this been discussed officially anywhere? Because if not, I can't get beyond the nagging idea that MS is playing some kind of joke that I don't get, and that's a distraction that I don't need.

There's a registry value you can set to go back to normal (title case) menus: http://www.richard-banks.org/2012/06/how-to-prevent-visual-s...

Nice. Now to figure out how to restore the ordinary window chrome, as the "active" and "inactive" states of the new title bar are identical. Try as I may, I can think of no conceivable rationale for this. Metro notwithstanding, this makes about as much sense as replacing project "files" with "friends"...

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#35

Post by TeHCrAzY » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 7:38 AM UTC

skeletonjelly wrote: post #17

GlennS wrote: post #16

And all I want to know is: will this version have input lag?

Can you elaborate?

Editing html in vs2012 beta(?) was quite laggy, with > 4 second delays between keypress and screen update.

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#36

Post by bztzt » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 8:01 AM UTC

CamperBob2 wrote: post #11

aninteger wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like this is shaping up to be the "Maddox Visual Studio, the best Visual Studio on the internet". Capital letters, black backgrounds, now we just need insulting error messages full of manliness.

I might be OK with the ALL CAPS menu titles if I understood the rationale behind them. Has this been discussed officially anywhere? Because if not, I can't get beyond the nagging idea that MS is playing some kind of joke that I don't get, and that's a distraction that I don't need.

They're there to distinguish the menus from their surroundings, since they want to avoid using lines etc. to do that.

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#37

Post by josteink » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 8:33 AM UTC

TeHCrAzY wrote: post #35

skeletonjelly wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate?

Editing html in vs2012 beta(?) was quite laggy, with > 4 second delays between keypress and screen update.

Official release notes mentions that performance have been improved compared to the last beta. How much it has improved is not mentioned.

Guess you'll have to DL and see for yourself ;)

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#38

Post by pwaring » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 8:38 AM UTC

grannyg00se wrote: post #26

apike wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it strange that they've moved to all-caps for menu titles (FILE, EDIT, VIEW...), especially considering Microsoft's recent uses of good typography. All-caps is a tradeoff where you take away the identifiable shape of a word to make it draw more attention. You could argue that menu titles would be the absolute worst place to use all-caps.

Could you explain further how caps "take[s] away the identifiable shape of a word"? Is [FILE] really considered less identifiable than [file] somehow?

Yes, FILE is less identifiable than file. All the letters are the same height and have similar shapes with all-caps, whereas lowercase letters have more variety and your brain can recognise the shape of words rather than looking at every single letter.

The Wikipedia page for word recognition has some useful links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_recognition

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#39

Post by andyjohnson0 » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 8:53 AM UTC

eps wrote: post #14

Is it still incapable of assembling XP-compatible binaries?

See http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4052230

Re: Visual Studio 2012 RC Available Now

#40

Post by law » Fri, Jun 01, 2012, 9:35 AM UTC

For anyone who's interested, here's a list of C++11 features built into VC10 and VC11: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/hh567368(v=vs.110).a...