Live data from Hacker News

Priced out of home ownership

bbc.co.uk

31–40 of 1001 posts

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#31

The UK made renting property a lot less lucrative a few years ago. Something about the tax position of letting mortgaged property. That meant landlords sold their houses - which I believe was broadly the point - and thus there are fewer places to rent and the cost of renting has increased to the new point of stability. I think this probably has decreased house prices to some extent, but people are really insanely rel…

A similar thing has happened in France, where the government has restricted the rental of less energy efficient dwellings[0]. This is generally a good thing for the environment, but it has already had an effect on rental prices as those apartments are now taken off the market. The exact impact is a little hard to work out, because, at least in Paris, it's also coincided with apartment owners wanting to hold on to emp…

>apartment owners wanting to hold on to empty apartments to rent them for the Olympics rather than to locals.

Sounds like something that can be fixed with laws.

Edit: would you mind explaining your downvotes with arguments please? thanks.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think the “latest fad” you’re using as outrage bait here is from ~8 years ago.

I think he is referring to the Tory pledge of reintroducing the National Service, given that probably like 85% of the concerned would be used to keep the NHS afloat and the 15% would go to the army.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#33

Society in UK, USA, AUS,Canada has been destroyed by housing as a financial instrument instead of……. housing. And politicians love every dollar of price increase. There’s the homeowners and the renters/serfs and nothing in between. Dead society, nothing to aim for or live for.

Politicians love every dollar? Regular people own the overwhelming majority of homes, and they love every dollar of increase. The finger pointing at corporations or politicians is totally misguided. It's the locals who collectively are invested in their homes and collectively (through the votes they cast) create the disastrous situation we are in. Even the most bleeding heart liberal is all about "protecting the char…

I'd agree with this. In Australia, it is too financially attractive to own investment property and enough of the population makes it a political gamble (at the bare minimum) to change that.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#34
I'm an expat now but I'm hearing it's even worse back in Australia. [Disclaimer: Some of this may be off because I'm hearing it second-hand, not actively investigating myself, so corrections are welcome]

I hear people who are already in the top 1-2% in income are told their borrowing power is only A$1M (~U$660K) while houses at all worth raising a family in cost A$3-6M. Banks don't seem to want to lend to them because they could instead lend to yet another property investor that already has a portfolio full of equity and collateral. The houses will sell and the mortgages will close, the banks can afford to be picky.

If you work in tech non-remotely, you're looking at the high end of that because you're competing with everyone else working tech, heavily weighted towards Sydney, and the rest of the country's housing supply is largely irrelevant. The cities certainly aren't designed for car commuting, so the supply of locations is further narrowed to places that are either so close they're walkable or have good public transport.

To my US readers I cannot emphasize enough how much this limits people's options both ways. When you have a non-remote job it limits your housing options, and if you're lucky enough to lock in a house, now it's limited your employment options in return. This isn't great for housing or employment markets. I'd like to think remote work has helped some people, but the most career-focused people I know are sticking to in-person connections, competing with everyone else doing the same.

Meanwhile cashed-up investors can buy up several houses and neither live in them nor rent them out. They're taking supply away from both the buying and renting markets, which is their legal right and a smart move on their part, but totally dysfunctional for the market as a whole. Anyone who does buy a house to rent it out is doing their small part to make buying less affordable but make renting more affordable, making it just that little bit less likely that the next person out there is a buyer of any kind.

Of course there's been doomsaying about a housing bubble pop for decades, especially during the world-famous pandemic lockdowns. Nothing popped and the exponential runaway pricing continues. Surely it's getting untenable enough to pop somehow, if my successful friends can't buy houses then I don't know who's left in the market except the real estate investors themselves.

I honestly don't see how I can un-expat now, and I'm just counting myself lucky to own property in the USA. If I want to keep this sweet deal, my options for moving are more limited than they've ever been, but it looks like a lot of people would gladly sacrifice flexibility to have anywhere near a tenable deal on housing.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#35
post #11

I always assumed when the baby boomers retired there would be a flood of big family houses coming up for sale. I see it in my parents that they're pretty comfortable staying in the family house as long as possible, I'm happy with this. It is made a lot easier by the fact that prices keep going up so staying in a house that is oversized financially is rewarding. I'd like to think it'll all come to and end one day as t…

There won't be because of the massive number of immigration the country has faced.

Either intentional or unintentional, this has the effect of increasing demand and with interest rates high supply is constrained.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#36
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always assumed when the baby boomers retired there would be a flood of big family houses coming up for sale. Here in Munich, they indeed are... and wherever possible, they and their often beautiful gardens get torn down, and the entire plot gets "densified" by creating as much indoor space as possible. What was one house for one family is now at least 6-8 apartments for DINKs, often built in shoddy quality with c…

> “Seriously, screw urbanization and gentrification. We absolutely need to revitalize rural areas again.” Covid-19 was effectively a massive experiment to test whether people want that, and turns out they didn’t.

People want to have their cake and eat it too. They want the peace and quiet of single family homes with lots of space of rural areas for their garden and kids, with the job opportunities, infrastructure and amenities of modern dense hip vibrant cities where the best schools, jobs and entertainment are within walking distance or short commutes by public transportation.

There's obviously gonna be a shortage of such housing arrangements, and therefore will come at hefty prices everywhere.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think the “latest fad” you’re using as outrage bait here is from ~8 years ago.

They're probably referring to the Tory's proposed 'national service' thing, which showed up yesterday and is already being walked back; the Tories, facing fairly dramatic defeat in the upcoming elections, are throwing all sorts of nonsense at the wall to see what sticks right now.

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#38
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always assumed when the baby boomers retired there would be a flood of big family houses coming up for sale. Here in Munich, they indeed are... and wherever possible, they and their often beautiful gardens get torn down, and the entire plot gets "densified" by creating as much indoor space as possible. What was one house for one family is now at least 6-8 apartments for DINKs, often built in shoddy quality with c…

> “Seriously, screw urbanization and gentrification. We absolutely need to revitalize rural areas again.” Covid-19 was effectively a massive experiment to test whether people want that, and turns out they didn’t.

Of course they did want space. Turns out most people can't stand being locked up like chicken in too small coops too long. Domestic violence exploded for example - and that's only from those who were actually able to call police [1].

On positiver notes, you had stuff like urban gardening increase in popularity [2], or sales of (e-)bikes towards people who went and biked to the rural areas.

And finally, WFH made it possible for a lot of people to give up their expensive city housing and move out into the suburbs... but obviously nowhere near enough to make a serious dent in demand, and RTO policies are creeping up and destroying even that bit of progress.

[1] https://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2022/06/shadow-pa...

[2] https://caes.ucdavis.edu/news/people-turned-gardening-stress...

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Where possible, states should build more tiny house communities, or have land where putting up a tiny house is legal and pain-free. But let's just call them what they are: Trailer parks. I just don't see how trailer parks are going to solve the problem. You may have cheap land but if you put 500 trailers on a plot you're still going to need sewage hookup, power and water for 500 homes.

They don't have to look like traditional trailer parks -- at least not the kind that I've seen. But besides that, they will be cheaper. That's the point.

What would you say differentiates a tiny house from a trailer set up in a trailer park? And from a tiny house estate to a trailer park?

Re: Priced out of home ownership

#40
Pff, in Switzerland, the mean age of the first-time home buyer is 48, and the mean age of a homeowner is 58. And those are the luckiest and the richest who could actually afford buying a house; many rent for life.
Post reply on HN