Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

pbs.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 203 posts

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#31

Post by seo-speedwagon »

implements wrote: post #14

During the Falklands War there were discussions in British political circles about what death toll would be unacceptable to liberate 1,800 people from Argentine occupation and rule - a calculus on the value of human life vs geopolitical concerns, I guess. The global consensus seems to be that Israel’s current actions have become excessive - if that’s true, I wonder where the line between legitimate and illegitimate r…

Genuine response: the “wider positions on the nature of the I/P conflict” are essential to informing the situation, and cannot be divorced from the discussion.

Israel has no ethical response because there is no ethical means by which one can maintain apartheid. History did not start on Oct 7, 2023. It’s like pondering where the line is between legitimate and illegitimate responses to the Warsaw ghetto uprising, or to Haitian revolution.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#32

Post by seo-speedwagon »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #29
tsimionescu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a somewhat complex question to answer, and one that can't truly be untangled from the broader history of the I/P conflict. But the base idea is this: you can't fight terrorism with bombs. Israel's stated goals in this war don't make sense: even if they could eliminate every single Hamas (military) operative, the kind of assault they are perpetrating is obviously going to give rise to a new wave of militants,…

> or they are seeking to punish Gazans in general for the actions of a few terrorists on October 7th, eye-for-an-eye style High-ranking Israeli officials have openly stated this at the start of the war and throughout.

Israel’s minister of national security has explicitly said he wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza.

https://x.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1792891809498022385

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#34

Post by aen1 »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #28
implements wrote: post #14

During the Falklands War there were discussions in British political circles about what death toll would be unacceptable to liberate 1,800 people from Argentine occupation and rule - a calculus on the value of human life vs geopolitical concerns, I guess. The global consensus seems to be that Israel’s current actions have become excessive - if that’s true, I wonder where the line between legitimate and illegitimate r…

During the Falklands War the discussion was around military deaths, not civilian deaths. The problem people have with Israel is not that they're killing Hamas fighters or that IDF soldiers are being killed. It's that they're killing civilians (amongst other war crimes and crimes against humanity). It's a completely different situation. Edit: just to flesh out my position here a bit. Civilian deaths are unavoidable in…

[flagged]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#35

Post by aen1 »

HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #29
tsimionescu wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a somewhat complex question to answer, and one that can't truly be untangled from the broader history of the I/P conflict. But the base idea is this: you can't fight terrorism with bombs. Israel's stated goals in this war don't make sense: even if they could eliminate every single Hamas (military) operative, the kind of assault they are perpetrating is obviously going to give rise to a new wave of militants,…

> or they are seeking to punish Gazans in general for the actions of a few terrorists on October 7th, eye-for-an-eye style High-ranking Israeli officials have openly stated this at the start of the war and throughout.

"few"

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/03/22/poll-hamas-remains-p...

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#36

Post by [deleted] »

aen1 wrote: post #34
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the Falklands War the discussion was around military deaths, not civilian deaths. The problem people have with Israel is not that they're killing Hamas fighters or that IDF soldiers are being killed. It's that they're killing civilians (amongst other war crimes and crimes against humanity). It's a completely different situation. Edit: just to flesh out my position here a bit. Civilian deaths are unavoidable in…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#37

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

aen1 wrote: post #34
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

During the Falklands War the discussion was around military deaths, not civilian deaths. The problem people have with Israel is not that they're killing Hamas fighters or that IDF soldiers are being killed. It's that they're killing civilians (amongst other war crimes and crimes against humanity). It's a completely different situation. Edit: just to flesh out my position here a bit. Civilian deaths are unavoidable in…

[flagged]

Those warnings are rarely given, and also warning someone that you're about to bomb their home and store and hospital and aid and aid workers, doesn't justify the crime of doing those things.

If all innocent civilians are equal, then it's not acceptable to kill 35,000 Palestinian ones to avenge As for "sympathizers": someone disagreeing with you doesn't justify exploding them, either.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#38

Post by michael1999 »

markus_zhang wrote: post #6

The ICJ is powerless. How does it purpose to enforce it, or anything?

The ICJ can issue warrants for individuals, and the many signatories are then obliged to arrest those people should they travel. Even Kissinger had to take care where he changed planes.

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#39

Post by none_to_remain »

markus_zhang wrote: post #22
dragonwriter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The ICJ is powerless. How does it purpose to enforce it, or anything? It's not its job to do that, it is a judicial not an executive body. Unfortunately, the UN’s executive decisionmaking body is, unlike the court, fairly consistently faithless to the law where any of the pet interests of the P5 members whoe exercise vetos over it are concerned, and protecting Israel from any consequences from its lawbreaking ( eve…

The UN is simply a playground for the P5 IMO.

And that's a good thing. They have a permanent forum for discussions to prevent global thermonuclear war. Everything else about the UN pales in comparison

Re: ICJ orders Israel to stop military operation in Rafah

#40

Post by gizmo686 »

seo-speedwagon wrote: post #32
HL33tibCe7 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> or they are seeking to punish Gazans in general for the actions of a few terrorists on October 7th, eye-for-an-eye style High-ranking Israeli officials have openly stated this at the start of the war and throughout.

Israel’s minister of national security has explicitly said he wants to ethnically cleanse Gaza. https://x.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1792891809498022385

He has also:

* Been denied entry to the IDF/excused from mandatory conscription due to his extremist views

* Been convicted (in an Israeli court) of supporting a terrorist organization.

* Made a legal career out of defending alledged Jewish terrorists in Israeli courts.

* Arguably contributed to the assassination Yitzhak Rabin and the collapse of the Oslo accords.

Post reply on HN