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Scandal at America's top science fair

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Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#31

Post by throwawaysleep »

capybara_2020 wrote: post #27
throwawaysleep wrote: post #11

I wrote an earlier reply to someone about how all I learned from the several mandatory ethics courses is that the people who cheat tend to be winners even after their punishment, if any. I bet that even after all this, that kid will still be better off having cheated than not.

I am curious, what is the definition of winners here? Do they make more money or do they invent more successful products/ideas or is it something else?

Money, social acceptance, access to desirable partners, positions of prestige, etc. All the nice things we wrestle over in life.

Anything you compete for except the “he was a good man” phrasing in obituaries, the cheaters usually get to have. Even if caught.

Not cheating outside of a few really heinous crimes such as murder (killing your science fair opponent wouldn’t be a winning strategy if caught) is an altruistic action.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#32

Post by throwawaysleep »

snickerbockers wrote: post #30

>Everyone makes mistakes — Lord knows I did plenty of stupid, immoral things when I was 17 — and there is always the opportunity for growth and redemption. when did the definition of 'mistake' change to encompass actions done on purpose? a mistake is when your data is invalid because you did the math wrong, not when all your data is simultaneously false and plagiarized. i don't mean to disagree with the notion that h…

We generally consider anyone under 18 now to basically not have capacity to make decisions.

Therefore anything they do that is bad is a mistake.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#33

Post by notjoemama »

In reading this, I am reminded of a YouTube video by CGP Grey about how anger is more viral than any other emotional reaction online, including love. But then I think, isn't this one of those times where at least some level of annoyance is justified?

Except, there's nothing I can do about it. Does making more people aware, that can't do anything about it, improve the situation? Or is awareness pointless because of how transient it is?

And, what if the next great filter isn't great, but a series of smaller exponential filters pulled into a tight timeframe by the advancement of technology?

I probably just need more sleep.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#34

Post by onetimeusename »

_lvbh wrote: post #24

One of the details that strike me is that the cheater comes from a fairly wealthy background and has no need for that prize money at all. They have much more to lose than gain and this doesn’t seem rational at all.

It's for university admissions. It's not that surprising. There's a lot of fraud in admissions. I've met students who have given TED talks on subjects they have no idea about, written science books with fake reviews on Amazon, etc. all for admissions.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#35

Post by shrubble »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #9

Science fairs always have hints of fraud around them. Many of the children putting out incredibly advanced research, beyond their capacity, are benefiting from their parents’ expertise, or friends of family, or access to labs, and such. It’s not talked about much but has been an issue for decades. As a side note, the criticism around this incident seems to have some racial tones. It’s weird to see tweets referring to…

It probably does. For every solid guy from Indian background who was living in the USA that I worked with, there were always at least 5 horror stories involving e.g. some back office tasks that involved one of 3000+ people working in India (at a previous company of > 30k total employees). It's not fair to the guys in the USA for sure.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#36

Post by armchairhacker »

saagarjha wrote: post #25
_lvbh wrote: post #24

One of the details that strike me is that the cheater comes from a fairly wealthy background and has no need for that prize money at all. They have much more to lose than gain and this doesn’t seem rational at all.

They don’t need the money. They want to win so they can get into college.

Googling his name brings up this article as the third result. Someone in whatever college he has been accepted to will surely discover and spread rumors, which he can’t really defend against because all the evidence supports that he did it. If he tries to publish anything, people will see his name and immediately question its legitimacy. If he gets an offer and the employer finds out they may rescind it because they can’t trust him.

Maybe he won’t outright get his admission rescinded, but I can’t see how a prestigious college is worth more than an intact reputation (I’m sure that without this award he still would’ve been accepted to a great community college at worst, and with his research internship assuming good AP scores, he may have even got into his top choice).

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#37

Post by hilux »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #11

I wrote an earlier reply to someone about how all I learned from the several mandatory ethics courses is that the people who cheat tend to be winners even after their punishment, if any. I bet that even after all this, that kid will still be better off having cheated than not.

Indeed - last I checked, Kaavya Viswanathan was doing just fine. Even had a stint at white-shoe law firm.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#40

Post by halayli »

snickerbockers wrote: post #30

>Everyone makes mistakes — Lord knows I did plenty of stupid, immoral things when I was 17 — and there is always the opportunity for growth and redemption. when did the definition of 'mistake' change to encompass actions done on purpose? a mistake is when your data is invalid because you did the math wrong, not when all your data is simultaneously false and plagiarized. i don't mean to disagree with the notion that h…

A mistake is not exclusive to actions, it encompass judgement as well. Misguided actions start from a misguided judgement.
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