Live data from Hacker News

Ambitious but at peace

jugheadjones10.github.io

31–40 of 66 posts

Re: Ambitious but at peace

#31

This attempts to disassociate fuel from acceleration. Your dissatisfaction is the fuel. You can't dump fuel and maintain the same potential energy. If you manage that it would be the motivational equivalent of a reactionless drive. As is, our propulsion is found in our discontent. Most of us can burn it a lot more efficiently though.

I think "it would be cool if ..." is a better long term motivator than "it sucks that ...".

"it would be cool if ..." runs into "but effort" and dies, while "it sucks that ..." is something that gnaws at you

Re: Ambitious but at peace

#32

This attempts to disassociate fuel from acceleration. Your dissatisfaction is the fuel. You can't dump fuel and maintain the same potential energy. If you manage that it would be the motivational equivalent of a reactionless drive. As is, our propulsion is found in our discontent. Most of us can burn it a lot more efficiently though.

It's very subtle.

There's a difference between emotion-based coping where you try to fix some perceived problem and a more intrinsic drive that aspires to make a change. The difference lies mostly in what the primary source of energy is.

Negative stimuli is a nice way to bootstrap an effort but it's not as durable or the same as internal motivation. I've tried to make many changes on both types of fuel and the only thing that is suitably durable for very long term projects is intrinsic motivation.

Re: Ambitious but at peace

#33
post #16

> Ambition is about the magnitude of your end goals, not about your mental state on the way there. The problem is that once you tie your self-image to your end goals, no matter the magnitude, how can your mental state _not_ suffer if you're not achieving them? If I want to be a millionaire by 30, and I am still working a low-paying job at 29, I either concede that my goal is unattainable, or I suffer. Fundamentally,…

The buddhists would say that expectation and attachment are the root of suffering, and to completely let go of them is the only way to transcend the pain of being.

I don't know if I'd go that far, more like the middle way or Aristotelian golden mean.

I think to an extent there is some inevitable pain in wanting for something that is not yet there, but that doesn't have to be the primary emotion. It's like in relationships or flirting, if there's no friction at all, it's not compelling, it's boring.

But the underlying thing that makes these relationships worth it, just like pursuing your aspirations, is less about the outcome and more about the process of growing and learning. Or optimally, it should be. Paradoxically, a focus on the process and engaging with it sustainably will oftentimes get you closer to the end goal than excessive goal focus and beating yourself up for the whole time you have not yet reached your goal.

The tragic part of aspiration is that often those that are ambitious are also incredibly critical thinkers, and are thus not as able or willing to count the small wins and gradual progress that comes from a sustainable approach.

We also have a tendency to move goalposts, so that by the time we achieve an original goal, we already have the next ones lined up. So the feeling ends up being inadequacy and disappointment.

"Why am I never meeting all of my goals? There must be something wrong with me..."

"There's always something left to try to crack at the end of the day, and until I figure it out I can't let myself off the hook."

This can lead to burnout, cynicism, and frankly a pretty toxic social life.

It's been a process to be in the paradoxical state of constantly wanting to improve and realizing the human constraints I have aren't typically existential flaws, they're just parts of the experience.

Pausing to assess my progress, optimally with objective data, to be able to come to a conclusion and adjust if needed allows me to "give it a rest" with the constant cross examination of self.

Over time, it becomes less constant. Over time, I've learned to appreciate my progress.

One of the big things recently is learning to appreciate myself for WHO I am rather than what I can do to "create value".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdjqZGzMGtE

Re: Ambitious but at peace

#34
There is a very important teaching in the Bhagavad Gita that's related.

Lord Krishna says in Bhagavadgita: Karmanye vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana, Ma Karmaphalaheturbhurma Te Sangostvakarmani

Meaning : You have the right to work only but never to its fruits. Let not the fruits of action be your motive, nor let your attachment be to inaction.

Interesting link if you want to read more: https://vivekavani.com/b2v47/

Re: Ambitious but at peace

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "it would be cool if ..." is a better long term motivator than "it sucks that ...".

"it would be cool if ..." runs into "but effort" and dies, while "it sucks that ..." is something that gnaws at you

Effort seems to be a quite malleable kind of experience. It can be enjoyed or despised depending on how you've trained your impulses around that certain kind of effort. This further speaks to using the "it would be cool if ..." narrative.

Trying to build upon "it sucks that ..." seems to create a bunch of weird self sabotaging behaviours in my experience. Since I tried moving away from that I've found it easier to motivate myself to do things that aren't immediately rewarding. And perhaps more importantly, the journey there seems more enjoyable.

And I think it makes a lot of sense that using a carrot instead of a stick on yourself produces more consistent behaviour. You move towards a carrot and you flee from a stick. You can flee in most directions.

Changing the way you think about yourself takes a lot of time though. Impulses are deeply rooted.

Re: Ambitious but at peace

#36
I feel like I'm on a completely different journey, one in which I realize my effort is up to me, but the results of my efforts are not--at all.

I only get to live life moment by moment. All I can ever do is what seems to me to be the next right step. The overwhelming majority of the time, that's actually very clear, and very small. In very few of my moments am I called upon to make momentous decisions.

What happens when I make the thousands of small choices usually has very little effect on anything except how I train my own mind to address future decisions. Especially if I'm interacting with another person, how long ago and what they ate is probably going to have a bigger impact on how they receive what I say than anything I can do about how I say it.

So I'm working on letting go of results completely. Perhaps this would be spectacularly stupid if I didn't believe in a fundamental, personal force for good that underlies all reality, but in that context, letting go of any sense of personal responsibility for outcomes is really helping me find peace (and, incidentally, finally find achievement).

Re: Ambitious but at peace

#37
post #34

There is a very important teaching in the Bhagavad Gita that's related. Lord Krishna says in Bhagavadgita: Karmanye vadhikaraste Ma Phaleshu Kadachana, Ma Karmaphalaheturbhurma Te Sangostvakarmani Meaning : You have the right to work only but never to its fruits. Let not the fruits of action be your motive, nor let your attachment be to inaction. Interesting link if you want to read more: https://vivekavani.com/b2v47…

Somewhat related, there's a teaching in the Pirkei Avot (attributed to Rabbi Tarfon): "It is not your responsibility to finish the work [of perfecting the world], but you are not free to desist from it either"

Re: Ambitious but at peace

#38
I will humbly restate this advice slightly based on 2-3X the life experience: Don’t have “end goals”. There’s no way to be satisfied with that approach. Either you reach the end and haven’t achieved them (you’re a “failure”), or you achieve them but aren’t at the end (now what?).

Instead, have a direction, or preferably more than one. Strive to make progress in those directions and celebrate your progress. If you enjoy running the race, rather than just look to the finish line, you’ll have reason to be satisfied the whole time. And if you don’t have a goal, there’s no reason to ever stop being satisfied.

Bonus points if you can train yourself to be satisfied based on just one criterion: Did I learn something? Because then there are no “failures” to worry about, and you’ll be much more open to trying new things.

Re: Ambitious but at peace

#39

This attempts to disassociate fuel from acceleration. Your dissatisfaction is the fuel. You can't dump fuel and maintain the same potential energy. If you manage that it would be the motivational equivalent of a reactionless drive. As is, our propulsion is found in our discontent. Most of us can burn it a lot more efficiently though.

There's a lot of overlap with ideas in Terror Management Theory. A lot of TMT is denial of death & not facing it, but also some people have a far more head on approach, motivate by watching the candle burn. Theres a variety of new page browser extensions that show life-left clocks of various sorts, for example.

I haven't read deep in, but even a couple long form pop write ups has been an affirming experience to go theough, has made me feel less alienated for trying to walk the line with my dissatisfactions (instead of opting for available happinesses or contentednesses). I know others grapple similarly, but somehow having some name some theory that talks somewhat to this desperate dissatisfaction fuel really helped me equalize pressure & handle this stress a bit better.

Post reply on HN