I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that maybe MS is okay with Bing returning results, even pirate results that Google does not. Maybe MS agrees with the Pirate mantra that piracy doesn't hurt, but help sales. What would happen if pirates, even casual pirates learned that Bing results weren't filtered but Google's were? I would suspect a massive uptake in usage if this was proven. And who are these pirates…
Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
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Re: Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
#32I doubt that Microsoft is streamlined enough to allow different departments (Bing and whomever handles DMCAs) to effectively communicate. Microsoft is an immense bureaucracy.
Re: Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, I don't buy that at all. It's unfortunate that it has moved to the common usage, because it is equivalent to "when you complain you sound like a woman, and that is bad." People should learn to speak respectfully instead of normalizing legitimately offensive language.
@karunamon Sorry, no. There's normalization due to changing norms and morays (e.g., "shit"), then there's normalization that's designed to subordinate a group (do you see many whites calling an unfamiliar black man "boy"?). This is much more like the latter. If you would tell your wife, girlfriend, or female coworker to "stop bitching" when she has something to say that you don't want to hear, then you are a chauvini…
Your entire argument seems to be predicated on this idea. But the thing is, pretty much every linguist in the world would disagree with the notion. The connotations of words are constantly shifting — there is ample evidence of this throughout the history of languages.
I applaud you for thinking about this sort of thing and speaking out about it, but in this particular case I think you're tilting at windmills.
Even if we accepted this absolutist stance where words' meanings do not change no matter what the common perception or intent of the speaker might be, it still wouldn't be offensive to women. If the word's connotation is immutable, then it does not refer to human women at all, but to dogs, and thus human men have just as much right to the word as human women do. But surely you'd agree the word has acquired new connotations since then, contrary to your claim above.
There might have been some point in history at which your stance was the right one, but if there was, I think that time is long gone. I don't know if you're just that old or if your regional dialect is odd in this regard, but I'm pretty sure the verb "bitch" is not gendered in most people's mental lexicons today. Because it is not particularly associated with them, it does not actually do any harm to women as a group if you use it.
(Note that all this is distinct from the noun "bitch," which is applied to men but is still has gendered associations. Probably best to avoid that one. And obviously avoid both in formal contexts.)
Re: Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
#34You know this is one of those things that sounds terribly hypocritical but in a massive company can easily be just the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Its hard for me to see this as anything more then typical large co bureaucracy.
Re: Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems (in this case) that Microsoft makes the best search engine to steal from.. Microsoft. Bravo guys! Well done keep up the good work in Redmond.
"Steal?" You drank the koolaid. The fact that they haven't rectified this in their own search engine should be pretty good evidence that copying and piracy are not, in fact, "theft" and that they don't represent lost sales.
What? Does not compute.
Re: Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
#36You know this is one of those things that sounds terribly hypocritical but in a massive company can easily be just the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Its hard for me to see this as anything more then typical large co bureaucracy.
Well it points out that Microsoft's internal processes are not well run. Presumably if Microsoft ever chose to sue Google over those contested links it would be a reasonable defense on Google's part that they were doing better than Microsoft's own search engine in complying. If you read Eric Goldman's excellent blog on the topic you can see that to keep your safe harbor status you have to be credibly trying to comply…
You're assuming that their law firm sent Bing the takedown request of which there is no evidence. Also, they're completely within their rights to host links of which they own copyright on their own search engine.
Re: Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well it points out that Microsoft's internal processes are not well run. Presumably if Microsoft ever chose to sue Google over those contested links it would be a reasonable defense on Google's part that they were doing better than Microsoft's own search engine in complying. If you read Eric Goldman's excellent blog on the topic you can see that to keep your safe harbor status you have to be credibly trying to comply…
>Presumably if Microsoft ever chose to sue Google over those contested links it would be a reasonable defense on Google's part that they were doing better than Microsoft's own search engine in complying. If you read Eric Goldman's excellent blog on the topic you can see that to keep your safe harbor status you have to be credibly trying to comply with requests You're assuming that their law firm sent Bing the takedow…
Re: Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
#38You know this is one of those things that sounds terribly hypocritical but in a massive company can easily be just the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing. Its hard for me to see this as anything more then typical large co bureaucracy.
Re: Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fuck, I don't give two shits about "controversial" language--but overtly, aggressively sexist language? Fuck that.
Wait, do you really consider "bitch" or "bitching" in these contexts sexist, nowadays? I've seen it applied to both genders, and, as in this case, a verb. It's moved on from the controversial stage to a common expression.
So think about this. You've seen it applied to both genders. How is it applied to men? "Whiny little bitch"; "I'm gonna make you my bitch"; "Suck it, bitch"; "Stop bitching ..." Here's what those phrases mean to people, not in the past but today: "you're acting like a weak, pathetic woman"; "I'm going to sexually dominate you like a woman".
How is it applied to women? "Stop your bitching." "Shut up, bitch." "She's such a bitch." Can you guess how those ones come across? "Shut up, stop complaining, and smile the way you're supposed to." "I own you; do what I say." "She doesn't act the way women should."
Right now (if you're not a terrible person :) you're already typing "that's not what it means when I say it!" And I sorta believe you, and that's great. But there's a reason that if you stop using "bitch," you won't have a good word to replace it. "Bitch" is a powerful, useful word exactly because it's great for calling men women, and telling women to stay in their place. Those messages hit hard, because it hasn't been very long since women were literally property, so having a quick way to hit someone with them comes in handy. And you don't get to choose how people hear your words -- when you use it, that's what's lurking right under the surface, and it's what a lot of people will hear.
Go ahead and keep doing it if that's your thing. Even try to reclaim it. But some of us are going to think you're just another schmuck blindly supporting the idea that men are one way and women are another way and men should be in charge of women. I haven't used the word "offensive" here, because that makes it all about me. I'm not offended.* It doesn't matter if I'm offended. What matters is that words promote ideas, and the word "bitch" promotes a stupid idea, and you might not want to do that.
* (Offended is such a weak emotion anyway. I recommend self-righteous anger, bitter amusement, cold calculation or cynical detachment. No one is merely offended.)
Re: Bing shows results that MS asked Google to take down
#40I am loving the takedown notice for the takedown notice. http://www.google.com/transparencyreport/removals/copyright/... Perhaps this is the solution to the entire problem, trap the whole system in a recursive loop. Although then perhaps all the telephones in the world will ring until Douglas Hofstadter answers one of them.