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The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps

cullmann.io

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Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps

#31

Post by Intralexical »

logicprog wrote: post #15
Intralexical wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GNOME as a project has consistently made itself clear on how it feels about the rest of the desktop Linux ecosystem existing, or working well with it: 2012 — https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotti... 2021 — https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-... 2023 — https://felipec.wordpress.com/2023/03/04/one-decade-later-gn... 2023 — https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-mess-is-not-an-…

That first link especially is hyperbolic disingenuous bad faith nonsense. It draws completely wild conclusions that simply don't follow from the GNOME dev quotes or GNOME's behavior it lists in its support. Trying to have a consistent coherent vision for their own project isn't the same as trying to lock users into their project, let alone trying to sabotage other people's projects, nor do they ever say that's what t…

> That first link especially is hyperbolic disingenuous bad faith nonsense. … I glanced briefly over the other articles and it seems like they're the same utter drivel… …I've explained at length why, and why their UX choices were justified, before…

Yep. There we go. Saying anything about GNOME that isn't adoring praise immediately draws out the victim-playing accusations of bad faith, and refusal to engage with the actual problems. How dare anybody scrutinize the way GNOME developers treat and conduct themselves around other people. Nobody can ask GNOME to listen to them, but everybody else must listen to GNOME. There's genuinely something strange going on with the mindset around the whole project; it's like they've actively weeded out anybody with any functioning empathy, self-awareness, or non-zero neuroplasticity…

It's not GNOME that's crazy; it's literally everybody else [1][2][3][4][5][6[][7][8][9][10] that's ever tried to work with GNOME! They must be out to get you.

---

1: Solus/Budgie — See second link above.

2: Linux Mint — https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=4149#comment-239629

https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Mint-More-GNOME-Forks

> We want to send a strong signal upstream and towards other projects. We cannot and will not support applications which do not support our users and environments.

3: Transmission — https://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/3685

(Cited in first link, which you dismissed as "Hyperbolic disingenuous bad faith nonsense".)

4: System76 (as villified by GNOME) — https://www.theregister.com/2021/11/10/system76_gnome_deskto...

(Mentioned in second link, which again you dismissed as "utterly stupid and wrong" "utter drivel".)

5: SpaceFM — https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687752

6: Inkscape developer — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFGXVN9dZ8U

> …you talk with people and you get an exasperated sigh, like "Why are you bothering to like report this issue to me?," or like "Why are you asking this question, it's stupid." It's a bit caustic.

7: Ubuntu (though diplomatic) — https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/ubuntu-desktop-gnome-plans-fo...

8: Wayland — https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/hnoksv/comment/fxfax...

> They just skip "embrace" and "extend" and just go straight to "extinguish". …They don't just decline to implement standards, they actively work against the establishment of standards at all.

(Cited in the fourth link.)

9: Kernel (Linus Torvalds and Alan Cox) — https://itwire.com/business-it-news/open-source/torvalds-pou...

> The gnome people have their problems. They do seem to like to blame pretty much anything but themselves.

10: Subsurface (Konstantin Bläsi) — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON0A1dsQOV0&t=6m8s

> There is no way to get an answer. The only thing you can get is abuse.

It's literally endless.

Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps

#32

Post by ndiddy »

tetromino_ wrote: post #22

By my reading, this is a Fedora bug, not a Gnome bug. Adwaita is by deliberate upstream decision no longer an FDO compliant icon theme, but Fedora sets it as the default FDO compliant icon theme in their builds. Clearly someone dropped the ball in the communication between Gnome and Fedora.

My POV is it's a GNOME issue. If GNOME doesn't want to comply with the FDO icon standard, they shouldn't include metadata that allows Adwaita to be registered as an icon theme.

Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps

#34

Post by Intralexical »

bgribble wrote: post #13

I feel a lot of sympathy for the GNOME developers. They are 15 years past the "let's build something cool!" stage and into the long, long grind of support and compatibility and being expected to work everywhere all the time. As an outsider, it looks like all the cool kids moved on a long time ago so it's basically just people too stubborn to quit working on it and a few paid devs trying to make something happen with…

> I feel a lot of sympathy for the GNOME developers. They are 15 years past the "let's build something cool!" stage and into the long, long grind of support and compatibility and being expected to work everywhere all the time.

They don't have to do that, you know. In fact, it's a pretty common complaint that it's rather difficult for new contributors to get involved with them stonewalling issue discussions and merge requests.

Volunteering is voluntary. They don't deserve sympathy for actively inflicting that onto both themselves and everybody else.

Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps

#36

Post by kingspact »

logicprog wrote: post #15
Intralexical wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GNOME as a project has consistently made itself clear on how it feels about the rest of the desktop Linux ecosystem existing, or working well with it: 2012 — https://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotti... 2021 — https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-... 2023 — https://felipec.wordpress.com/2023/03/04/one-decade-later-gn... 2023 — https://medium.com/@fulalas/gnome-mess-is-not-an-…

That first link especially is hyperbolic disingenuous bad faith nonsense. It draws completely wild conclusions that simply don't follow from the GNOME dev quotes or GNOME's behavior it lists in its support. Trying to have a consistent coherent vision for their own project isn't the same as trying to lock users into their project, let alone trying to sabotage other people's projects, nor do they ever say that's what t…

GIDF right on cue, sir.

Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps

#37

Post by juped »

shmerl wrote: post #23
juped wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just read the linked content before making a non sequitur comment.

The linked content directly leads to what I said. Gnome developers should address this of course (and they don't want to), but I'll repeat recommendation for the end user - use KDE and avoid Gnome. It has been so not just because of the above issue.

No it doesn't, as you'd know if you had read it. The linked content is about a KDE program (Kate) having been broken by the negligent (malicious?) actions of Gnome developers. This is self-evidently not something "using KDE and avoiding Gnome" can help with (or has anything to do with).

Feel free to read it for more details!

Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps

#38

Post by TheCoelacanth »

juped wrote: post #37
shmerl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked content directly leads to what I said. Gnome developers should address this of course (and they don't want to), but I'll repeat recommendation for the end user - use KDE and avoid Gnome. It has been so not just because of the above issue.

No it doesn't, as you'd know if you had read it. The linked content is about a KDE program (Kate) having been broken by the negligent (malicious?) actions of Gnome developers. This is self-evidently not something "using KDE and avoiding Gnome" can help with (or has anything to do with). Feel free to read it for more details!

If you're using KDE, you aren't likely to end up using Adwaita as your icon theme. The primary users affected seem to be users of the GNOME and XFCE flavors of Fedora where it's the default theme.

Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps

#39

Post by piaste »

juped wrote: post #37
shmerl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The linked content directly leads to what I said. Gnome developers should address this of course (and they don't want to), but I'll repeat recommendation for the end user - use KDE and avoid Gnome. It has been so not just because of the above issue.

No it doesn't, as you'd know if you had read it. The linked content is about a KDE program (Kate) having been broken by the negligent (malicious?) actions of Gnome developers. This is self-evidently not something "using KDE and avoiding Gnome" can help with (or has anything to do with). Feel free to read it for more details!

They only broke Kate on Gnome setups, where Kate tries to use the broken adwaita icon theme.

If you use KDE, your default icon theme will be KDE's breeze-icon, not Gnome's adwaita-icon-theme, and the problem won't appear.

Re: The Adwaita Icon Theme no longer follows the FDO spec, breaking e.g. KDE apps

#40

Post by cullmann »

bgribble wrote: post #13

I feel a lot of sympathy for the GNOME developers. They are 15 years past the "let's build something cool!" stage and into the long, long grind of support and compatibility and being expected to work everywhere all the time. As an outsider, it looks like all the cool kids moved on a long time ago so it's basically just people too stubborn to quit working on it and a few paid devs trying to make something happen with…

I as Kate maintainer can not understand their position in that bug. I see that one might forget about the implications of that rename, but now it got reported and the fix would be, at least the simple one, to just keep the old icons for these names. That would have zero bad impact on 'modern GNOME apps'.
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