Live data from Hacker News

Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

openmindmag.org

31–40 of 112 posts

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#31

IMO the problem is the definition. According to wikipedia UPF is "an industrially formulated edible substance derived from natural food or synthesized from other organic compounds. The resulting products are designed to be highly profitable, convenient, and hyperpalatable, often through food additives such as preservatives, colourings, and flavourings." The Wikipedia features a photo of fruit loops breakfast cereal b…

It is a confusing definition. I wouldn’t consider most bread and pasta to be ultra processed but simply processed (except the bread that lasts for weeks). Ultra processed in my mind is when you take the source materials down to constitute parts and then Frankenstein a new food item out of it. Like Pringles. And then a traditional actual sliced potato chip is processed food because it’s a deep fried sliced potato. The…

It seems like commercial interests are trying to muddy the waters for the definition of "ultra-processed food" in search results. The phrase as originally coined is a product of the Nova classification system [1]:

The Nova classification is a framework for grouping edible substances based on the extent and purpose of food processing applied to them. Researchers at the University of São Paulo, Brazil, proposed the system in 2009. Nova classifies food into four groups:

Group 1: Unprocessed or minimally processed foods - Unprocessed foods are edible parts of plants and animals, along with algae, fungi, and water...

Group 2: Processed culinary ingredients - Processed culinary ingredients are derived from group 1 foods or else from nature by processes such as pressing, refining, grinding, milling, and drying. It also includes substances mined or extracted from nature....

Group 3: Processed foods - Processed foods are relatively simple food products produced by adding processed culinary ingredients (group 2 substances) such as salt or sugar to unprocessed (group 1) foods. Processed foods are made or preserved through baking, boiling, canning, bottling, and non-alcoholic fermentation...

Group 4: Ultra-processed foods - Ultra-processed foods are formulations of ingredients, mostly of exclusive industrial use, typically created by series of industrial techniques and processes. Unprocessed (group 1) foods often compose a small proportion of their ingredients or are even lacking entirely. Ultra-processing often introduces food substances of little or no culinary use, such as hydrogenated oil, modified starch, protein isolate, and high-fructose corn syrup. The manufacturing processes for ultra-processed foods typically involve techniques such as extrusion, moulding, and pre-frying, along with the addition of various cosmetic additives, including those for flavour enhancement and colour...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_classification

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#32
post #15

> “We’ve had that issue in the past, as with low-fat recommendations” that later turned out to be counterproductive, says Duane Mellor, a dietitian at Aston University in England. “We’ve messed up too many times. We need to make smarter changes more carefully.” Now that's some terrible logic coupled with a ridiculously handwavy statement. What was the issue with low-fat recommendation? Why was it counter productive?…

>What was the issue with low-fat recommendation? AFAIK the issue wasn't with low-fat itself per se, but rather that fat was replaced with sugars for things to be palatable. This ended up being much more harmful than having fats, as sugar takes a toll on blood sugar levels and has high energy content itself. As things got labeled low-fat, people thought this meant a healthier alternative, when in fact it was worse or…

Yea, it's like the entire industry forgot the premise of CI-CO.

And when you get down to it, the palatable portion of the issue becomes the biggest problem. We suck all the fiber out of foods and feed it back to animals, and then leave the super high calorie portions to eat making it hyper easy to consume 10k kcals a day.

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#33
post #14
post #9

> ultra-processed foods such as ... yogurts > Frozen and canned vegetables are often classified as ultra-processed I think this goes against the common usage of the term "ultra-processed".

Yes that’s kind of nuts to group those in the “ultra” group. All three of those are some of the healthiest things you can eat. Especially yogurt.

I think yogurt is a great example of the problem. In its more natural form it is healthy, particularly as a probiotic with live cultures and enzymes.

But that’s not what the majority of yogurts sold in stores are, they are heated and pasteurized killing live cultures, and then loaded with sugar added. It’s this yogurt product that more closely resembles a desert than a healthy yogurt that is bought/consumed and marketed as a health food.

It’s very similar to the majority of breakfast cereals, probably never as healthy as yogurt to begin with, but a bastardization of the “cereal grains” they are named after.

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#35
post #15

> “We’ve had that issue in the past, as with low-fat recommendations” that later turned out to be counterproductive, says Duane Mellor, a dietitian at Aston University in England. “We’ve messed up too many times. We need to make smarter changes more carefully.” Now that's some terrible logic coupled with a ridiculously handwavy statement. What was the issue with low-fat recommendation? Why was it counter productive?…

>What was the issue with low-fat recommendation? AFAIK the issue wasn't with low-fat itself per se, but rather that fat was replaced with sugars for things to be palatable. This ended up being much more harmful than having fats, as sugar takes a toll on blood sugar levels and has high energy content itself. As things got labeled low-fat, people thought this meant a healthier alternative, when in fact it was worse or…

> AFAIK the issue wasn't with low-fat itself per se, but rather that fat was replaced with sugars for things to be palatable.

I remember one day I was walking through the grocery store, and was struck by the inanity of a package of candy-corn proudly declaring itself "Fat-Free!"

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#36
post #14
post #9

> ultra-processed foods such as ... yogurts > Frozen and canned vegetables are often classified as ultra-processed I think this goes against the common usage of the term "ultra-processed".

Yes that’s kind of nuts to group those in the “ultra” group. All three of those are some of the healthiest things you can eat. Especially yogurt.

[deleted]

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#38
post #14
post #9

> ultra-processed foods such as ... yogurts > Frozen and canned vegetables are often classified as ultra-processed I think this goes against the common usage of the term "ultra-processed".

Yes that’s kind of nuts to group those in the “ultra” group. All three of those are some of the healthiest things you can eat. Especially yogurt.

Here's the problem, "yogurt" may be healthy, but many brands are closer to a sugar delivery system than the traditional product.

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#39
What I've observed is that nutrition, including nutrition research, has become as religious - meaning, following faith rather than data - as religion itself.

A few things I notice:

- "Processed foods" are lumped together as if they're all the same. But they're not. Specifically, processed foods with high carbs and artificial sweeteners have a very different effect on insulin than no-carb processed meats like most luncheon meats and bacon. Yes, Coke and donuts are bad for you. That has nothing, zero, to do with bacon. (Maybe bacon is bad for you. I don't think so. But even if it is, that would be for reasons completely unrelated to cookies, Coke, etc.)

- A lot, and I mean a LOT, of nutrition research is done by vegans and sponsored by vegans. It's a cult. They have re-branded themselves "plant-based." You sometimes have to dig to find this. Recent Stanford twin study is a good example.

- For the vegan researchers, the big win is getting the headline. They know (and this is true for all "science") that 99% of consumers who see the initial headline will never see the rebuttals. Recent Stanford twin study is a good example.

Re: Are Ultra-Processed Foods All That Unhealthy?

#40
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that’s kind of nuts to group those in the “ultra” group. All three of those are some of the healthiest things you can eat. Especially yogurt.

I think yogurt is a great example of the problem. In its more natural form it is healthy, particularly as a probiotic with live cultures and enzymes. But that’s not what the majority of yogurts sold in stores are, they are heated and pasteurized killing live cultures, and then loaded with sugar added. It’s this yogurt product that more closely resembles a desert than a healthy yogurt that is bought/consumed and marke…

Aren’t there are a ton of live culture yogurts available in most supermarkets? Noosa, Siggis, Fage, Yoplait, and Chobani for example.

They just genrally have too much sugar.

Post reply on HN