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Physical fitness and risk of mental disorders in children and adolescents

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Re: Physical fitness and risk of mental disorders in children and adolescents

#31

Post by zzzeek »

jimbob45 wrote: post #14
zzzeek wrote: post #5

less anxious / depressed kids get to do more sports in the first place. kids without "the right attitude" or a lack of innate ability are routinely excluded from sports, as im sure many of us here have experienced.

kids without "the right attitude" or a lack of innate ability are routinely excluded from sports, as im sure many of us here have experienced. You're projecting. Most coaches just want kids to work hard and have fun. They really couldn't care less about winning. If you need absolute proof, there are many sports such as swimming and track where every additional kid adds points to your team total such that having more…

i watched a basketball coach literally pass over my child twice in a basketball-skills display for the parents, as he is mildly autistic and was not lining up with the other kids (not at lot of kids, about 15 kids) cleanly enough for the coach to notice him. He had practiced every move, he was able to do every skill. We had to yell at the coach "HEY YOU FORGOT !" when it was time for him to demonstrate dribbling in a curved line, pass back and then shoot for the basket; the coach apologized "Oh I forgot!" and our son did the display PERFECTLY, then literally 5 minutes later when all the kids lined up to shoot for a full height basket, HE SKIPPED OVER HIM AGAIN - we didnt have the nerve to yell out again that our child was passed over, they had moved onto a new exercise by then. My child came over to us and curled up into a ball on the floor for the rest of the display as all the parents around us ignored us. The coach DID NOT NOTICE or care. Because our child is mildly autistic and does not display the usual "sporting attitude", he was literally ignored by his coach in front of our faces, and as he continued to not look very "sporting", this grown adult coach simply could not see that our child even existed even as we were RIGHT THERE (nor did any parents). I had many similar experiences 45 years ago. A lot has changed in sports but dumb coaches who can only see what they want to see have apparently not, and this most CERTAINLY has an enormous impression on neurodivergent kids as to how athletic they're going to be.

so no I'm not projecting. Kids who don't "look/act right" are ignored and discarded by sports and in my direct experience as a parent this has hardly changed at all.

Re: Physical fitness and risk of mental disorders in children and adolescents

#34

Post by slothtrop »

surfpel wrote: post #9

Not doubting the importance of physical activity, but poor mental health makes it significantly harder to maintain fitness as a child. Often, school sports have minimum GPA requirements. A poor home life increases chances of mental illness and decreases chances that someone will drive you to practice. Will you even maintain the team sport if your teammates never accept you, given whatever mental condition that gives…

Obesity is an epidemic, broken or abusive households are not. It doesn't make sense to be skeptical of fitness on the conceit that it might not handle issues in the margins (except, they do -- sports can improve self-esteem in kids who otherwise struggle).

> Will you even maintain the team sport if your teammates never accept you

Kids are generally pretty accepting, and in a sports setting they spend nearly all of their time focused on playing, as they should be. It would require egregious behavior for an entire team not to "accept" you.

> given whatever mental condition that gives you anxiety or quirks?

No one cares about quirks. They care if you're a dick, or waste everyone's time in the field.

Re: Physical fitness and risk of mental disorders in children and adolescents

#35

Post by slothtrop »

noah91734 wrote: post #27
surfpel wrote: post #9

Not doubting the importance of physical activity, but poor mental health makes it significantly harder to maintain fitness as a child. Often, school sports have minimum GPA requirements. A poor home life increases chances of mental illness and decreases chances that someone will drive you to practice. Will you even maintain the team sport if your teammates never accept you, given whatever mental condition that gives…

> A poor home life increases chances of mental illness and decreases chances that someone will drive you to practice. That you need to be driven at all to exercise is a huge part of the reason why exercise and fitness rates are so low in our youth. Our grandparents and great grandparents walked miles to go to school five days a week, and we've built our cities such that this is impossible or dangerous. We now live in…

Intramurals are one option, often favored by immigrant parents who place more importance on academics, to exercise at school and by extension (usually) fairly close to home (see: volleyball, basketball, wrestling). Aside from some sports that require lots of travel around the city (like hockey, soccer) there are normally quite a few that tend to stay fixed, except for tournaments.

Re: Physical fitness and risk of mental disorders in children and adolescents

#36

Post by canucker2016 »

mattmaroon wrote: post #33

This seems like a very easy one to point out that they may be getting the cause and effect backward.

They've done the analysis: meta-analysis of random controlled trials , see https://www.bmj.com/content/384/bmj-2023-075847

"Exercise is an effective treatment for depression, with walking or jogging, yoga, and strength training more effective than other exercises, particularly when intense. Yoga and strength training were well tolerated compared with other treatments. Exercise appeared equally effective for people with and without comorbidities and with different baseline levels of depression."

Re: Physical fitness and risk of mental disorders in children and adolescents

#37

Post by lambdaba »

delichon wrote: post #2

The role of brain health in mental illness is commonly discounted, but so consistently found in studies. I got roasted here for recommending psychiatrist Mary Edes' book on improving mental health with dietary changes, but the benefits of the approach are clear. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/27/1227062... I've resolved most of my diabetes type 2 with diet, and nobody should be surprised that this…

I'm convinced brain health *is* mental health. With more nuance, mental health is brain health accreted through time. Healing the brain is possible, mainstream medicine and psychiatry is entirely ignorant of this, and once the brain is healed, the learned behavior oftentimes also needs some unlearning. For this, psychedelics are the most powerful tools. I think they can also be healing to the brain, particularly psilocybin, but the ideal order in my opinion is getting the brain to homeostasis first.

The main intervention there is ketogenic dieting. Ketosis is required for brain healing, as a sick brain is an overexcited brain, to the point of toxicity.

Of course, optimal nutrient intake, particularly brain related nutrients (which is most of them, really, but omega-3 fatty acids, and, yes, cholesterol are particularly important).

Re: Physical fitness and risk of mental disorders in children and adolescents

#38

Post by storf45 »

noah91734 wrote: post #27
surfpel wrote: post #9

Not doubting the importance of physical activity, but poor mental health makes it significantly harder to maintain fitness as a child. Often, school sports have minimum GPA requirements. A poor home life increases chances of mental illness and decreases chances that someone will drive you to practice. Will you even maintain the team sport if your teammates never accept you, given whatever mental condition that gives…

> A poor home life increases chances of mental illness and decreases chances that someone will drive you to practice. That you need to be driven at all to exercise is a huge part of the reason why exercise and fitness rates are so low in our youth. Our grandparents and great grandparents walked miles to go to school five days a week, and we've built our cities such that this is impossible or dangerous. We now live in…

Doesn't 'home life' depend on the parent's emphasis on physical activity, sports, or general fitness? I.e. if the parents put a higher value on other things, it seems likely that the children will follow their lead.

Re: Physical fitness and risk of mental disorders in children and adolescents

#39

Post by zzzeek »

NickC25 wrote: post #12
zzzeek wrote: post #5

less anxious / depressed kids get to do more sports in the first place. kids without "the right attitude" or a lack of innate ability are routinely excluded from sports, as im sure many of us here have experienced.

I was routinely picked last if not at all in sports all throughout my childhood. As a result, I picked up sports I could do on my own, such as lifting weights, biking, swimming, and running. Individual sports such as golf and tennis followed naturally. I would have otherwise been a complete shut-in. Although I do have a lack of executive function, I make sure to get exercise as often as I can. Classes at the local gy…

> As a result, I picked up sports I could do on my own, such as lifting weights, biking, swimming, and running. Individual sports such as golf and tennis followed naturally.

good for you but yes, you had people in your family who were athletes and apparently did not dissuade you further. lots of kids are not really that lucky.

Re: Physical fitness and risk of mental disorders in children and adolescents

#40

Post by lambdaba »

tomcar288 wrote: post #13
delichon wrote: post #2

The role of brain health in mental illness is commonly discounted, but so consistently found in studies. I got roasted here for recommending psychiatrist Mary Edes' book on improving mental health with dietary changes, but the benefits of the approach are clear. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2024/01/27/1227062... I've resolved most of my diabetes type 2 with diet, and nobody should be surprised that this…

This! Absolutely. It's as if people think the brain isn't even an organ in the body and that it's completely disconnected from the rest of the body. After doing a ton of research and listening to many talks on metabolic syndrome and all the diseases caused by our modern diets, I've realized just how impactful diet can be on the body, the brain and the many modern diseases caused by our modern diets and lifestyle.

Yes. For those wanting to research this further look up keywords like "metabolic psychiatry" and "brain energy".
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