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EU Police Chiefs want an end to end-to-end encryption

europol.europa.eu

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Re: EU Police Chiefs want an end to end-to-end encryption

#31

Post by ben_w »

mywittyname wrote: post #30
ben_w wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel your vibe as I also distrust authority, but no, it's not "nothing" to do with kids and crime — calls for an end to crypto are foolish and misguided, crypto tech is too simple to inhibit and blocking access to it creates opportunities for criminals to do crimes, any competent criminal group can roll their own crypto from open source projects… but there's a lot of non-competent criminal groups out there too, jus…

> but there's a lot of non-competent criminal groups out there too, Who get swept up by authorities and out-competed by their technologically savvy adversaries. There's strong selective pressure on technologically inept criminals that doesn't necessarily exist for traditional businesses. There's no government organization out there every night rounding up Walmart employees in a bid to bring down the Walton family.

There's also way more crime than the police have the resources to manage.

My go-to example of this is heroin in the UK: the substance is the most severe level of classification, nobody speaks in its favour even when they regard the war on drugs to be an abject failure ("war on drugs over, drugs declare victory" that kind of thing), yet the number of users of just that one substance exceeds the total UK prison population by a factor of 3.

If you broaden this to all UK users drugs of the same classification, it's around 10 times the total UK prison population. All illegal drugs, 32 times the total UK prison population.

And then there's all the non-drug crimes…

Re: EU Police Chiefs want an end to end-to-end encryption

#33

Post by VMG »

ben_w wrote: post #29
hsvs6 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one will ever have resources to suveil everyone and everything, given the rate at which info is exploding. People dont talk about the info explosion problem, cause there is no solution.

Almost everyone carries at least one microphone and two cameras on their person at all times, along with a WiFi system that researchers have demonstrated can be used as a wall-penetrating radar capable of pose estimation, heart-rate sensing, and breath sensing. Monitoring with all these things can be done at low-quality in real-time using the compute attached to those sensors, anything that might be interesting can b…

Plus with machine learning you can improve the compression and sift through the data much more efficiently

Re: EU Police Chiefs want an end to end-to-end encryption

#35

Post by kmlx »

gmerc wrote: post #26

They probably want everyone to have glass walls in their house too. Doesn’t mean they should get it either. London has more cameras than any other city in the west but leads crime significantly.

> London has more cameras than any other city in the west but leads crime significantly.

any link for the crime claim?

i checked multiple websites, and while hard to measure, London as a whole is not even in the top 10 european cities when it comes to crime.

Re: EU Police Chiefs want an end to end-to-end encryption

#36

Post by [deleted] »

zarzavat wrote: post #3
Kim_Bruning wrote: post #2

I read this as "European Police Chiefs want everyone to leave their digital keys under the doormat". I always have the idea that police are late to this particular arms race and don't realize that their way of thinking about security is still somewhere last century. I mean, I don't even mean it to be insulting or anything. People can't be good at everything. It seems that police I've met so far (n Else the police chi…

They are trying to maximize their power to their own advantage, just like everyone else. (Un)fortunately it’s way too late to ban e2e encryption for anyone who really wants it (i.e. nerds and criminals), but they might end up banning it for the general public out of spite.

[deleted]

Re: EU Police Chiefs want an end to end-to-end encryption

#37

Post by hactually »

kmlx wrote: post #35
gmerc wrote: post #26

They probably want everyone to have glass walls in their house too. Doesn’t mean they should get it either. London has more cameras than any other city in the west but leads crime significantly.

> London has more cameras than any other city in the west but leads crime significantly. any link for the crime claim? i checked multiple websites, and while hard to measure, London as a whole is not even in the top 10 european cities when it comes to crime.

they may be adjusting for cameras per capita which it does lead on

Re: EU Police Chiefs want an end to end-to-end encryption

#39

Post by lelijke »

snowpid wrote: post #19
protocolture wrote: post #12

Thats funny, I want an end to EU police chiefs.

Ok, why?

to start of the officer that proposed this is from belgium, same country where a dude that gets caugth with csam gets no punishment to make matters worse i know of at least 2 whistleblowers that try to make this known to the public one of them was the officer that a victim testified to... the officer that took that testimony is not alowed by order of court to not mention the victim if he does so he will get imediatly put behind bars... if you do the research you'll quickly see what is going on and if that is not a good reason for it to end i rather end myself than having to witness all this for much longer

Re: EU Police Chiefs want an end to end-to-end encryption

#40

Post by anonzzzies »

anonzzzies wrote: post #11

Almost everyone in any kind of power wants this except for themselves of course. It has nothing to do with 'the children' or 'crime'; they are not that naive. But some politicians who believe the crime & children narrative while not being in the same court as the censoring crowd might be naive enough to vote for it. It's a world wide illness and it should be prevented.

Another today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40152967
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