Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Python.org Redesign Request for Proposals

pythonorg-redesign.readthedocs.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 66 posts

Re: Python.org Redesign Request for Proposals

#31

Post by jinushaun »

neovive wrote: post #23

Best of luck with the redesign. I recently started learning Python and finally realize what I've been missing for so many years. I'm not sure of the intended audience of python.org (new users vs. experienced), but as a brand new Python user, the current website is filled with lots of great information, but is a bit intimidating. I think the Python language really sells itself and it would be nice to see some simple e…

The current python.org homepage is a mess geared towards developers that already know Python. Compare that with ruby-lang.org and nodejs.org, which both seem geared towards promoting adoption of the language by newbs. They're organised with a clear information hierarchy that makes it easy to find the download button, get started on tutorials and find docs.

Python.org, on the other hand is a jumble of text. The download section is hard to find. The boxes in the right column are more prominent than the boxes in the left column, even though the content of the left column is arguably more important. The middle section is dominated by news that is, for all intents and purposes, worthless to me. There is no visual separation between when the description stops and the news section starts. Unlike nodejs.org, there is no shout-out to companies that are using Python or popular Python libraries, etc. The homepage needs to answer the 5 W's: who is using Python, what is Python, where can I download it, when is the next release, and why should I learn Python? And don't forgot how: How can I get started?

This is basic information design.

Re: Python.org Redesign Request for Proposals

#33

Post by benhoyt »

hising wrote: post #14

One thing that would really make the website work better is to make pages like http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html hierarchical with an overview and one or two sub levels so each function gets its own page, making it easier to find via search (The Google) and do dynamic linking from IDE:s or whatever if the url routing were set up smart. Today when you search for 'random.choice python' you get to the random…

Yes, it'd be nice if that search went straight to the function in question -- however, it'd make the docs a lot more broken up and IMHO harder to use if each module had 15 sub-pages for the individual functions. Harder to scan or Ctrl-F on the page, for one thing.

Re: Python.org Redesign Request for Proposals

#34

Post by its_so_on »

olavk wrote: post #10
its_so_on wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: now I'm at -3. Still, I'm going to let this ride (not delete it), as even though it is not about the web site, I think my suggestion is serious and would benefit Python - i.e. get to the right audience here. I will also add that Python is my favorite language, and I hold it in a completely separate league from every other language I'm familiar with. Nothing else comes close. That said. "Python.org Redesign Requ…

A redesign of the Python core language will not convert PHP users. Python is already much better than the PHP language. The benefit of PHP is that it is widely supported by hosting providers and because the default mode of web development (add some php tags to a html page) is extremely easy to get started with.

I think 'hosting providers' are a throwback to the late 90's and the last decade. These days anyone who needs more than a service like wordpress (and there are many, many people who are happy to use hosted blogging etc servies) is likely to have their own server instance. Are there really that many people who have access to 'only' PHP, but not whatever framework they would like? (from django to rails).

Re: Python.org Redesign Request for Proposals

#35

Post by benhoyt »

gosub wrote: post #32

One other thing they should improve is the search function in the documentation: http://docs.python.org/ The first relevant result for searching "string concatenation" is around the 20th place. http://docs.python.org/search.html?q=string+concatenation

Funny -- I've used Python and its online docs for many years and never used their search, I always use Google. :-) Google search with site:docs.python.org does a somewhat better job: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=string...

Re: Python.org Redesign Request for Proposals

#36

Post by brown9-2 »

its_so_on wrote: post #7
jnoller wrote: post #2

As one of the people behind this, and a PSF director I am here to answer any questions people might have.

Edit: now I'm at -3. Still, I'm going to let this ride (not delete it), as even though it is not about the web site, I think my suggestion is serious and would benefit Python - i.e. get to the right audience here. I will also add that Python is my favorite language, and I hold it in a completely separate league from every other language I'm familiar with. Nothing else comes close. That said. "Python.org Redesign Requ…

"that lives on the web"

What does that even mean?

Re: Python.org Redesign Request for Proposals

#38

Post by lukeschlather »

its_so_on wrote: post #34
olavk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A redesign of the Python core language will not convert PHP users. Python is already much better than the PHP language. The benefit of PHP is that it is widely supported by hosting providers and because the default mode of web development (add some php tags to a html page) is extremely easy to get started with.

I think 'hosting providers' are a throwback to the late 90's and the last decade. These days anyone who needs more than a service like wordpress (and there are many, many people who are happy to use hosted blogging etc servies) is likely to have their own server instance. Are there really that many people who have access to 'only' PHP, but not whatever framework they would like? (from django to rails).

I think you underestimate the usefulness of a hosted environment. I need a really good reason to set up a full stack myself and incur the maintenance problems of system upgrades and hardening an entire OS.

That said, you are right that there are plenty of hosting providers with ruby/python available in some capacity.

Re: Python.org Redesign Request for Proposals

#39

Post by irahul »

hising wrote: post #14

One thing that would really make the website work better is to make pages like http://docs.python.org/library/stdtypes.html hierarchical with an overview and one or two sub levels so each function gets its own page, making it easier to find via search (The Google) and do dynamic linking from IDE:s or whatever if the url routing were set up smart. Today when you search for 'random.choice python' you get to the random…

> Today when you search for 'random.choice python' you get to the random front page with 20+ random

I prefer a single page for random than having 20 something pages for random.x. Here is the doc for random.choice:

    random.choice(seq)
    Return a random element from the non-empty sequence seq. If seq is empty, raises IndexError.
A separate page for this will be textbook definition of overkill.

If you already know what you are looking for(random.choice), a better way to lookup the docs is to either use the repl(help(random.choice)) or configure your editor to lookup the documentation. Python library docs is mostly contained in the docstrings.

Re: Python.org Redesign Request for Proposals

#40

Post by lmm »

jwallaceparker wrote: post #37

The Python website certainly doesn't have a welcoming feel to it. A redesign will be a great move.

Strongly disagree. The python website has always felt like one of the last bastions of function over form; it's not slick, but the content you actually want is right there without any distractions. If it turns into one of these 30%-margin, rounded-corners sites with half the text I'll be sad.

Maybe I'm just getting old.

Post reply on HN