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Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

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Re: Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

#31

Post by dlpower »

quanto wrote: post #8

Even when ignoring the per-part cost, are the parts even the same material? Looking same != Being same. Not sure what Formlabs is trying to prove here.

They have a robust material library, silicone, polyurethane, glass filled polymers etc. The material is not really a bottleneck at this point. I have used their ESD material which was slick, even the weirder materials are super easy. Obviously at scale the parts will make more sense with injection molding but if you need a couple thousand of a part this seems much cheaper and easier.

Re: Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

#32

Post by dlpower »

mdaniel wrote: post #29
Duanemclemore wrote: post #16

Form 3 owner here. - What is the material in each process? - What is the price per unit when accounting for materials? - If the material is not a Form proprietary mix, does the cost of the printers include the Open Platform license cost? [0] - What post-processing is required to wash and cure the printed pieces? - How many human hours are required in the washing / curing of the pieces from each method? - What is the…

> and the $6k price of Open Platform for the Form 3 The Form 4 Open Platform pricing is still "TBD," and given the two licenses for the Form 3 differ by $3k, it makes me shudder to think what they'd charge for their newest toy I also was trying to understand what that license gives you: is it removing the DRM from their printers to allow non-OEM materials?

Open platform allows you to use non formlabs resins, it works fine but tbh what you pay for with formlabs is getting the perfect prints every time. The form 3 works so well because all of the resins have such optimized settings and you can just let it print without worrying about issues. If you want to use some other resin I doubt you would see as high of a success rate.

Re: Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

#33

Post by dlpower »

bangaladore wrote: post #9

Isn't the big downside to SLA prints that they have terrible structural integrity? Like worse than FDM prints?

More the opposite than anything. The SLA parts are isotropic so you have the same properties in every direction and do not have to worry about breaking on the layer lines like in FDM. Formlabs has a couple resins which are very impact resistant or stiff etc, some similar to ABS, glass filled plastics or polypropylene

The resins are also getting cheaper too, It looks like they are using the new Black V5 which costs a third less per liter than Black V4 from their last printer.

Re: Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

#34

Post by Duanemclemore »

kedikedi wrote: post #28
Duanemclemore wrote: post #16

Form 3 owner here. - What is the material in each process? - What is the price per unit when accounting for materials? - If the material is not a Form proprietary mix, does the cost of the printers include the Open Platform license cost? [0] - What post-processing is required to wash and cure the printed pieces? - How many human hours are required in the washing / curing of the pieces from each method? - What is the…

We have multiple form 3 printers at work too, and they are very slow! It takes an hour to automatically fill the resin tank (which I cheat by pouring myself) and supply costs are ridiculous. But I really like the rather consistent output quality and their software is awesome. My comparisons are against my own printer, anycubic photon mono. I can get a new printer with the same price of a bottle of formlabs material :…

Yeah, you can't fill that guy without pouring it in. It just isn't happening with a new vat. The supply costs are indeed the worst part, too. However, we've had FAR from perfect, repeatable results with it. The Elegoo Saturn is DEFINITELY more consistent and repeatable. And yeah - lower end machines are kinda nuts. One moving part, etc. It's funny - they're a superior technology. How do we know? Form themselves went to mSLA on the 4 as compared to the SLA of the 3 with the complicated optical carriage.

Re: Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

#35

Post by Duanemclemore »

mdaniel wrote: post #29
Duanemclemore wrote: post #16

Form 3 owner here. - What is the material in each process? - What is the price per unit when accounting for materials? - If the material is not a Form proprietary mix, does the cost of the printers include the Open Platform license cost? [0] - What post-processing is required to wash and cure the printed pieces? - How many human hours are required in the washing / curing of the pieces from each method? - What is the…

> and the $6k price of Open Platform for the Form 3 The Form 4 Open Platform pricing is still "TBD," and given the two licenses for the Form 3 differ by $3k, it makes me shudder to think what they'd charge for their newest toy I also was trying to understand what that license gives you: is it removing the DRM from their printers to allow non-OEM materials?

> is it removing the DRM from their printers to allow non-OEM materials?

Yep - that's it! Well, in order to do so I imagine they also have to give you an unlocked version of PreForm (their proprietary slicer) because a lot of settings that we have control over in ChiTuBox are hidden behind just the presets for the material selection.

Re: Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

#36

Post by Duanemclemore »

opello wrote: post #27
Duanemclemore wrote: post #16

Form 3 owner here. - What is the material in each process? - What is the price per unit when accounting for materials? - If the material is not a Form proprietary mix, does the cost of the printers include the Open Platform license cost? [0] - What post-processing is required to wash and cure the printed pieces? - How many human hours are required in the washing / curing of the pieces from each method? - What is the…

I've barely used FDM 3D printers, and never resin, but that Open Platform bit seems like a shocking downside to resin printers.

It's just a problem with Formlabs. No one else in the consumer market does the same that I know of. Both Stratasys and 3d Systems had (and I'm guessing have) proprietary, DRM'd materials for their machines but that's in the professional space. Tethon, who specializes in crazy materials, does too.

Re: Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

#37

Post by Duanemclemore »

quux wrote: post #21
Duanemclemore wrote: post #16

Form 3 owner here. - What is the material in each process? - What is the price per unit when accounting for materials? - If the material is not a Form proprietary mix, does the cost of the printers include the Open Platform license cost? [0] - What post-processing is required to wash and cure the printed pieces? - How many human hours are required in the washing / curing of the pieces from each method? - What is the…

Asking the real questions

Thanks man! I'm trying to run a business here with these things, so if they don't perform it's out of my bottom line.

Re: Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

#38

Post by Duanemclemore »

dlpower wrote: post #32
mdaniel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the $6k price of Open Platform for the Form 3 The Form 4 Open Platform pricing is still "TBD," and given the two licenses for the Form 3 differ by $3k, it makes me shudder to think what they'd charge for their newest toy I also was trying to understand what that license gives you: is it removing the DRM from their printers to allow non-OEM materials?

Open platform allows you to use non formlabs resins, it works fine but tbh what you pay for with formlabs is getting the perfect prints every time. The form 3 works so well because all of the resins have such optimized settings and you can just let it print without worrying about issues. If you want to use some other resin I doubt you would see as high of a success rate.

> but tbh what you pay for with formlabs is getting the perfect prints every time.

My 45 email chain with Formlabs would beg to differ.

I'm being a little bit silly. The reason for the (over)engineering of their products is to be as turn key as possible, and this includes materials. I give them credit for the ambition to try to be the "Apple" of 3d printing. I'm not 100% negative on Formlabs, and they've certainly played an important part in making even resin printing more mainstream and accessible to the consumer. That OG Form was the printer everyone wanted at the time, and for good reason. Not to mention the geometries we're printing are especially tricky (by design). So although I sound pretty negative in most of the comments here, all in all I both understand and respect what Form is trying to do. Things just... aren't as easy as they try to make them out to be.

Re: Formlabs Form 4 3D Printer Beats Injection Molding Machine in Speed and Quality [video]

#39

Post by mdaniel »

dlpower wrote: post #32
mdaniel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the $6k price of Open Platform for the Form 3 The Form 4 Open Platform pricing is still "TBD," and given the two licenses for the Form 3 differ by $3k, it makes me shudder to think what they'd charge for their newest toy I also was trying to understand what that license gives you: is it removing the DRM from their printers to allow non-OEM materials?

Open platform allows you to use non formlabs resins, it works fine but tbh what you pay for with formlabs is getting the perfect prints every time. The form 3 works so well because all of the resins have such optimized settings and you can just let it print without worrying about issues. If you want to use some other resin I doubt you would see as high of a success rate.

I guess "allows" in the same way HP "allows" you to only use their ink. Fantastic, and only (at least) $6k for the privilege of using my hardware as I see fit
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