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Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

theatlantic.com

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Re: Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

#31

Post by hedora »

afruitpie wrote: post #25
60secs wrote: post #17

Too bad there's not a netflix/spotify for journalism. No single journalism source is worth a subscription for 99.9% of people. Aggregated, maybe.

Apple News+ is trying to be that. I get it through my Apple One family plan. The home page is shamefully Trump spam and tabloid garbage, but the magazine section isn’t terrible. I read The Atlantic and The New Yorker frequently on it.

The trump spam is probably because you read trump spam just enough to make it display more trump spam.

Avoiding that is easier said than done: I used to pay for Apple News+, but ended up clicking on just enough clickbait to only get clickbait in my feed.

If they had a way to only allow certain news sources then I’d probably re-subscribe.

Re: Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

#32

Post by skybrian »

At a smaller scale, for an independent writer publishing on Substack, I’m a fan of the model where most articles are free but some are for paid subscribers only. If you’re publishing something of widespread interest, maybe that one should be free.

Maybe that would work for larger websites too? They do often have gift links, which are another way to do it. Limited-time promotions seem like a reasonable way to get new subscribers, and an election is an excuse to do it. It would get traffic from people who do last-minute research on less-covered races.

I’m skeptical about how much effect it would have on the races where most people have already made up their minds. How would that work? Would it increase turnout?

Re: Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

#33

Post by nozzlegear »

hedora wrote: post #31
afruitpie wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple News+ is trying to be that. I get it through my Apple One family plan. The home page is shamefully Trump spam and tabloid garbage, but the magazine section isn’t terrible. I read The Atlantic and The New Yorker frequently on it.

The trump spam is probably because you read trump spam just enough to make it display more trump spam. Avoiding that is easier said than done: I used to pay for Apple News+, but ended up clicking on just enough clickbait to only get clickbait in my feed. If they had a way to only allow certain news sources then I’d probably re-subscribe.

I found that you can ignore news stories from certain outlets in Apple News, which I chose to do with certain celebrity gossip outlets that had been taking over my feed. Apparently this only replaces the stories with a placeholder that says "You've blocked this news source". Most of the time that's fine. But place that in the context of how they group related news stories in the feed: if you've got a group of news stories that reads "World War 3 has just started," "President So-and-so dies in attack," "You've blocked this news source," well, you might just be tempted to click on that blocked story. I'd rather they remove it from the feed entirely.

Re: Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

#34

Post by thesnide »

hcfman wrote: post #16

This is so true… and stuff disappears from the internet news a lot. In Europe they have laws that are invoked a lot that should be renamed to the right to politicians to remain unaccountable. Privacy is portayed by the authorities as someone to protect the people, but in reality the people have none and it’s really used to hide the illegal and corrupt actions of government officials.

That's why physical hard copies are often better for historians. But that isn't free.

Re: Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

#35

Post by rightbyte »

usr1106 wrote: post #6

Requesting free journalism is like requesting free food. Both are essential, but few would expect food being distributed for free. Subscriptions are fine, I pay for several. But they don't fit every use case. There should be a way to pay for a single article. Some micropayment service(s) so you don't need an account with every web site you might want to read. It has been tried numerous time without success. Not sure…

If I remember correctly many if not most newspaper readers seemed to be free loaders when you paid for it. They were shared alot.

Re: Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

#36

Post by hedora »

nozzlegear wrote: post #33
hedora wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trump spam is probably because you read trump spam just enough to make it display more trump spam. Avoiding that is easier said than done: I used to pay for Apple News+, but ended up clicking on just enough clickbait to only get clickbait in my feed. If they had a way to only allow certain news sources then I’d probably re-subscribe.

I found that you can ignore news stories from certain outlets in Apple News, which I chose to do with certain celebrity gossip outlets that had been taking over my feed. Apparently this only replaces the stories with a placeholder that says "You've blocked this news source". Most of the time that's fine. But place that in the context of how they group related news stories in the feed: if you've got a group of news st…

I noticed that.

The next problem is that news outlets are paid per click, so they have incentive to use dark patterns to get clicks.

The last straw for me were things like “Biden hog tied in back of pickup truck …” with “… tailgate mural” hidden behind the click.

If you fall for it once, they aggressively uprank similar news outlets in your feed.

Re: Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

#38

Post by dave78 »

kjreact wrote: post #26
usr1106 wrote: post #6

Requesting free journalism is like requesting free food. Both are essential, but few would expect food being distributed for free. Subscriptions are fine, I pay for several. But they don't fit every use case. There should be a way to pay for a single article. Some micropayment service(s) so you don't need an account with every web site you might want to read. It has been tried numerous time without success. Not sure…

> Requesting free journalism is like requesting free food. Both are essential, but few would expect food being distributed for free. But unlike food, many people are willing to report on news freely without expectation of payment. For example, I get better local news coverage in my local city subreddit than I do in any professional publication. Of course this type of citizen “journalism” is less rigorous, but nonethe…

> For example, I get better local news coverage in my local city subreddit than I do in any professional publication.

Agreed. And the "professional" local news is more and more just regurgitating photos, videos, and descriptions they've lifted from Instagram, Tiktok, X, and Reddit anyway.

Re: Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

#39

Post by FLT8 »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #21
usr1106 wrote: post #6

Requesting free journalism is like requesting free food. Both are essential, but few would expect food being distributed for free. Subscriptions are fine, I pay for several. But they don't fit every use case. There should be a way to pay for a single article. Some micropayment service(s) so you don't need an account with every web site you might want to read. It has been tried numerous time without success. Not sure…

Historically you could read any newspaper for free. It would be left all over the place: at work, at cafes, on the bus seat. Short of that you could go to like a grocery store where the paper is kept in a rack not a box, read all you want, and put it back. Libraries had papers too. Today publishers want an unprecedented level of restriction to solely the subscribers. News was never like this but they are trying to re…

As far as I remember things, newspapers used to carry a lot of advertising. And the face value of a newspaper was more-or-less a nominal amount, I suspect largely to support the distribution network.

I don't recall ever seeing a newspaper lying around with ads cut out or scribbled over - which I guess is a simplistic analog of the ad-blockers and such that modern news outlets are up against. You can understand the push to maintain revenue that's needed to support quality journalism.

At the same time, as a consumer of news, print ads would not be centrally and intrusively tracking your every thought either, so the desire to block modern ads is entirely rational.

Modern advertising methods have broken the social contract that used to exist to help keep things in balance.

Re: Democracy Dies Behind Paywalls – Paywalled

#40

Post by snakeyjake »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #21
usr1106 wrote: post #6

Requesting free journalism is like requesting free food. Both are essential, but few would expect food being distributed for free. Subscriptions are fine, I pay for several. But they don't fit every use case. There should be a way to pay for a single article. Some micropayment service(s) so you don't need an account with every web site you might want to read. It has been tried numerous time without success. Not sure…

Historically you could read any newspaper for free. It would be left all over the place: at work, at cafes, on the bus seat. Short of that you could go to like a grocery store where the paper is kept in a rack not a box, read all you want, and put it back. Libraries had papers too. Today publishers want an unprecedented level of restriction to solely the subscribers. News was never like this but they are trying to re…

>Libraries had papers too.

Have.

Practically every public library in the US (over 17,000 as of right now) currently, today, has online access to local and national newspapers.

My public library offers free online access to the following national newspapers:

Atlanta Journal-Constitution

The Atlantic (HAH!)

The Chicago Tribune

The Los Angeles Times

The New York Times

USA Today

The Wall Street Journal

They also offer access to local newspapers, print and digital magazines, foreign-language newspapers, historical newspaper archives, scientific journals, and more.

I live in a highly-populated, urban and suburban, highly-affluent region. To test and see if smaller public libraries have access these resources I went to the website of the public library system of the rural Indiana county my grandparents lived in. They have one branch serving 28,000 people in a poorer region of the country where average household income is somewhere around $48,000. They have access to newspapers, magazines, and scientific journals through the Indiana Digital Library system.

Then I went to the library of the poorest county (19,000/$22k) in the entire country and did the same thing: WV Reads provides access to all of that, too.

All for $0.00-- today.

Not "had", "have".

Support, by using, your local library.

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