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Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

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Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#31

Post by mtjl79 »

zavulon wrote: post #29
gmurphy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to meet people like this because of attitudes like this. I have three designers on my team who are also world-class engineers, yet they often don't advertise themselves as such because they run into the "well if they do both they can't be good at either" attitude. No-one bats an eye when an engineer also turns out to be a fantastic musician, or when an engineer drives great product decisions, yet somehow be…

I would agree with you if these were complimentary skills we're talking about. However, programming and UX design are almost contradictory. For programming, you need a mathematical inclination, attention to detail, willingness to sit down and focus on one concrete task at a time, etc. For UX (and any kind of other) design, you need more an ability to create art - paint with broad strokes, look at the big picture, etc…

No, you're incorrect.

UX (User Experience) is about designing exactly that - an experience. It's about being extremely detail oriented, mathematical inclination (sifting through metrics, a/b testing data, CTR, bounce rates, etc.), willingness to sit down and focus on one concrete task at a time, sifting through hours of user video seeing how people interact with an application and then finding solutions to make the UX more smooth. Sound familiar to what you wrote about your "programmer"?

Not so different after all it seems.

EDIT: Everyone seems to confuse UI design with UX design. They are very different, and in some cases are different job descriptions.

Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#32

Post by x1 »

eswangren wrote: post #30
x1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>let's not trivialize the difficulty of programming in general No, let's trivialize it. What exactly do you do on a daily basis? Give me an example of a task that you worked on that took a lifetime to master. Something that you could only truly appreciate after years of focused experience.

I have no example of a skill that took "a lifetime to master" as I am only 28 years old and would not call myself a "master" of anything at this point. However, I can describe the last two projects I worked on. One was implenting an image quality algorithm for a medical imaging system. I did not do this on my own, but I will wager that it was far more complex and involved than any UI code you last wrote. I had to und…

I'm not sure where you got that I was a "UI guy", with that said you sound terribly defensive about your work and your abilities. It is almost as if you are insulted because you believe what you work on requires an advanced intellect. That's something you'll need to get over eventually.

Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#33

Post by AJ007 »

zavulon wrote: post #16

> I think the greatest companies of the next few years will be build by teams that consist of people that can program AND can do UX. I couldn't disagree more. I have never met anybody who can program AND do UX well . Maybe there are very very rare exceptions, but these two skills are pretty much mutually exclusive. First of all, you need completely different modes of thinking while coding and while doing UX. Left/rig…

Ever played an early PC game where the programmer also created the graphics? That analogy has stuck with me my entire life.

I think in the educational system, as children and young adults we are taught that we must excel at as much as we possibly can. When, the reality is, doing really well in one area means your skills in another will weaken -- especially when you are trying to do them at the same time.

Ever met an accountant novel writer who base jumps on the weekends? I haven't.

Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#34

Post by zavulon »

feverishaaron wrote: post #19
zavulon wrote: post #16

> I think the greatest companies of the next few years will be build by teams that consist of people that can program AND can do UX. I couldn't disagree more. I have never met anybody who can program AND do UX well . Maybe there are very very rare exceptions, but these two skills are pretty much mutually exclusive. First of all, you need completely different modes of thinking while coding and while doing UX. Left/rig…

As a UX guy, I'm trying to learn how to program. It's very difficult, and requires a different mental model of learning. However, I recognize the immediate value that understanding programming concepts will provide in evaluating how feasible a UI schema is. It will help balance priorities – do we first deliver a feature then refine, or do we take the extra engineering time to provide an enhanced user experience from…

Obviously there's nothing wrong with UX people learning how to program, and programmers learning a bit of UX. Doing either will enhance the value you provide to clients, no doubt.

However, all I'm saying is you can't realistically become an EXPERT in both.

I run a business... over the last few years I've been doing a bit of sales, accounting, programming, project management, IA/UX design, QA, long-term strategy planning, etc. Has it helped me that I know how to do each one a little? Yes, of course. Am I expecting to become an expert in all of them? Absolutely not

Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#35

Post by eswangren »

x1 wrote: post #32
eswangren wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no example of a skill that took "a lifetime to master" as I am only 28 years old and would not call myself a "master" of anything at this point. However, I can describe the last two projects I worked on. One was implenting an image quality algorithm for a medical imaging system. I did not do this on my own, but I will wager that it was far more complex and involved than any UI code you last wrote. I had to und…

I'm not sure where you got that I was a "UI guy", with that said you sound terribly defensive about your work and your abilities. It is almost as if you are insulted because you believe what you work on requires an advanced intellect. That's something you'll need to get over eventually.

Well, no, but I see how what I said may cOme off that way. I gathered that you were a UI guy from statements you made. It seemed to me that you were trivializing programming as a whole by saying things like "do you think anything we do is that difficult?". Well yes, some things we do are terribly difficult and require far more knowledge than what may be gained by reading "teach yourself HTML + JavaScript" for a year.

Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#36

Post by vibrunazo »

zavulon wrote: post #29
gmurphy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to meet people like this because of attitudes like this. I have three designers on my team who are also world-class engineers, yet they often don't advertise themselves as such because they run into the "well if they do both they can't be good at either" attitude. No-one bats an eye when an engineer also turns out to be a fantastic musician, or when an engineer drives great product decisions, yet somehow be…

I would agree with you if these were complimentary skills we're talking about. However, programming and UX design are almost contradictory. For programming, you need a mathematical inclination, attention to detail, willingness to sit down and focus on one concrete task at a time, etc. For UX (and any kind of other) design, you need more an ability to create art - paint with broad strokes, look at the big picture, etc…

> For this you need x, for that you need y

My life experience has taught me this couldn't be more wrong.

To be a great engineer you need to be smart.

To be a great ux guy you need to be smart.

To be a great product guy you need to be smart.

As someone doing all these 3 and more. I live by the saying that a smart person can be anything he wants (intellectually). And the only limits I've seen in a smart person are only what he tries to be good at. If you're smart, you'll be good at it. That whole different types of intelligence hypothesis is pseudoscience.

Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#37

Post by x1 »

eswangren wrote: post #35
x1 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you got that I was a "UI guy", with that said you sound terribly defensive about your work and your abilities. It is almost as if you are insulted because you believe what you work on requires an advanced intellect. That's something you'll need to get over eventually.

Well, no, but I see how what I said may cOme off that way. I gathered that you were a UI guy from statements you made. It seemed to me that you were trivializing programming as a whole by saying things like "do you think anything we do is that difficult?". Well yes, some things we do are terribly difficult and require far more knowledge than what may be gained by reading "teach yourself HTML + JavaScript" for a year.

I think we're arguing the same points.

We both seem to agree that your run-of-the-mill Java programmer working for the autozone website is not a complicated position.

We both seem to agree that your run-of-the-mill UI/UX person working for the same autozone website is also not complicated.

I bet you would agree that designing the interface for the first consumer focused touchscreen-only device is something that is very complicated.

Just like I agree that working something that deals with ct scans, ultrasounds, 3d printing, 3d rendering, product delivery and a host of other problems are very complicated.

The real point is that you should know your industry, and yes all of our industries are a little different. If you are working on the Accuvix V20 Medison ultrasound system I personally believe you should know how to turn the thing on, point it, run the scanner, understand the readouts (to a certain degree) as well as understand the inner-workings of the image acquisition and processing. I believe this is just what helps people make more informed decisions. This doesn't mean you suddenly have to be a UI/UX person, it simply pushes you to know the complete lifecycle and have some competency in the product you are working on.

Should you be a UI/UX person? No. Should you know why the UI/UX decisions are being made? Absolutely. Knowing that will help you write a better system, it will also help you bring to light more possibilities.

I mean, would you call Jonathan Ive a "UI guy"?

Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#38

Post by x1 »

AJ007 wrote: post #33
zavulon wrote: post #16

> I think the greatest companies of the next few years will be build by teams that consist of people that can program AND can do UX. I couldn't disagree more. I have never met anybody who can program AND do UX well . Maybe there are very very rare exceptions, but these two skills are pretty much mutually exclusive. First of all, you need completely different modes of thinking while coding and while doing UX. Left/rig…

Ever played an early PC game where the programmer also created the graphics? That analogy has stuck with me my entire life. I think in the educational system, as children and young adults we are taught that we must excel at as much as we possibly can. When, the reality is, doing really well in one area means your skills in another will weaken -- especially when you are trying to do them at the same time. Ever met an…

You mean like Sid Meier and Chris Sawyer?

Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#39

Post by _feda_ »

its_so_on wrote: post #26

So, let me quote a bit of this submission, add some facts, and then take this to its logical conclusion. > The current meme going around Silicon Valley and startup land is that any founder needs to be a technical founder and be able to program. Don’t look for a technical co-founder, be a technical co-founder. Even more, every employee at an internet startup needs to be able to program...For those who are all-in on th…

such a schedule has burnout written all over it.

Re: Don't look for a UX guy, be a UX guy

#40

Post by lhnz »

zavulon wrote: post #16

> I think the greatest companies of the next few years will be build by teams that consist of people that can program AND can do UX. I couldn't disagree more. I have never met anybody who can program AND do UX well . Maybe there are very very rare exceptions, but these two skills are pretty much mutually exclusive. First of all, you need completely different modes of thinking while coding and while doing UX. Left/rig…

Time might be scarce and you cannot specialise in both. However the separations between different subjects do not exist because of differences in the brain. We categorise subjects in order to aid in efficient dissemination of information. There are social reasons for the soft boundaries which formed in the past, but these are now reinforced by education and the workplace.

Likewise, skills are generally not mutually exclusive: the more mental models you have, the smarter you think. For example, there are some areas of UX which are relevant to API design. In fact, there are similarities between almost everything in life.

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