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"Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

dezeen.com

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Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#31

Post by hellofellows »

rdtsc wrote: post #28
loeg wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Engineers in 1895 knew how to use steel trusses and built a bridge that lasted 100+ years It's a little too strong of a claim. Plenty of poorly designed steel bridges from the 19th century have collapsed as well, despite the superior material.

> Plenty of poorly designed steel bridges from the 19th century have collapsed as well That's true. But I only meant that particular bridge, which did last for 100+ years. So, when the architects and the engineers go to the archives to relearn a few things, they can focus on the ones which haven't collapsed.

+ why even remove the steel bridge in the first place?

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#32

Post by alricb »

replygirl wrote: post #17
Animats wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it was due to a really lame attempt to make something that looked like a cable-stayed bridge but wasn't. Here's the bridge in Norway, before collapse.[1] That is something that should never have been made of wood. [1] https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2022/08/tretten-bridge-nor...

that's a pretty political spin. if i remember correctly the bridge in florida was entirely feasible but they got the pre-tensioning and assembly wrong.

The NTSB found that it was actually that the 11/12 node region was too weak as designed, an error that wasn't caught by the reviewer.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#33

Post by karaterobot »

Err, the actual quotes make it sound more like plain old engineering troubles, made more complicated by the discrepancy between older and newer building codes.

> "A short construction period, span lengths and reuse of existing foundation were framework conditions for the planning of the bridge," [the report by the NSIA] continued.

I understand why a design website would emphasize the design aspects though.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#34

Post by digging »

_hbro wrote: post #27

The idea that a "strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to the failure of a bridge doesn't make any logical sense. Employing a strong focus on aesthetics doesn't preclude also having the necessary focus on stability and safety. Bridges fail because they were not designed or engineered properly.

I don't agree; to me it states they were so focused on aesthetics that they weren't able to see structural flaws. Like tunnel vision. Seems like the best way to state this phenomenon IMO.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#35

Post by blt »

Never seen a truss where the diagonal members are all one direction like that. Also bit weird that the strongest part of the bridge is not the middle of the longest span, but it does not appear to be cantilever. Disclaimer: I am a mere Poly Bridge player.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#36

Post by hellofellows »

jszymborski wrote: post #19

Tretten Bridge, not to be confused with (Lower) Trenton Bridge, the most passive aggressive bridge in the world. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/20...

damn... world doesn't buys but takes..by force?

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#37

Post by trgn »

bell-cot wrote: post #18
Animats wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it was due to a really lame attempt to make something that looked like a cable-stayed bridge but wasn't. Here's the bridge in Norway, before collapse.[1] That is something that should never have been made of wood. [1] https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2022/08/tretten-bridge-nor...

Nor of any other material. Between the insanely shallow truss depth at the right end of it, and the "can't tell compression from tension" decision to slant all the diagonal members in the same direction - that bridge is a poster child for "I Flunked Engineering 201".

I almost feel like intuition tells you that. It literally looks like it can fold down flat. A regular truss bridge looks like a honeycomb, straining, but balanced.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#38

Post by wlesieutre »

lupusreal wrote: post #24
valianteffort wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The female engineer angle was never true, it was a 4chan hallucination. Something they lied to each other so much they forgot it was a lie Look up the phone call / voicemail between FIGG engineer and FDOT, in which the FIGG engineer describes the cracking and says it isn't a problem and they're proceeding. The engineer was a man.

William "Denny" Pate was the engineer who stamped the drawings. After the incident he says his wife accidentally put his phone through the laundry, so he couldn't provide his texts for evidence. Hmmmmmm.

https://www.enr.com/articles/47108-bridge-designer-testifies...

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#39

Post by jeffbee »

bell-cot wrote: post #11
wrycoder wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was due to a design calculation error, not some aesthetic concern.

> The new pedestrian bridge was designed to connect the campus to student housing in a dramatic, sculptural way and also to showcase the school's leadership in the ABC method of rapid bridge construction.[16][17] And from my recollection of coverage at the time - FIU's administrative pressure to deliver their dramatic & leading-edge-construction bridge, quick and cheap, lead to all sorts of corner cutting in the engi…

To me the root cause was they just could not see a way to inconvenience even one single driver ever. They had to grade separate pedestrians from cars over a freeway and a gigantic parking lot. Universities should be pedestrian focused.

The bridge could have been designed correctly. But the fundamental issue was the bridge didn't need to exist.

Re: "Strong focus on aesthetics" contributed to collapse of Norway timber bridge

#40

Post by trgn »

hilux wrote: post #13
voisin wrote: post #3

Architects’ first commandment: always prioritize function over form.

Unsurprisingly, this is Wurster Hall, home of the Architecture School (aka "College of Environmental Design") at UC Berkeley: https://www.sosbrutalism.org/cms/15892267

Horrific, but salvageable. Put on a wide overhang flat roof, so rain no longer streaks down the wall, and wash/paint it. Then, it will just be a large no frills classroom building. Not great, but no longer offensive either.
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