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Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

whitehouse.gov

31–40 of 91 posts

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a bad thing. Making intelligent decisions about career choices is now punished because you have to pay for people who didn't? Yay equity.

Your intelligent career decisions won't insulate you from the under-educated voters putting a despot and charlatan into power. An educated populace is better for everyone.

Strongly disagree.

Russia has 54% of people with higher education, compared to us at 44%. In fact, it's the most "educated" country in the world. Bet you didn't know that...

Look at how that worked out for them.

The value of education is greatly overstated. (and on the other hand people who claim education is soooo important for a good society conveniently pretend things like culture, religion, morals, etc don't exist).

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#32

There’s a sentiment which isn’t really being expressed here so far. I don’t begrudge people who are less fortunate and need help. I don’t enjoy my food any less because someone who is hungry can get free food from a food bank. There are so many ways that the government has helped the more successful. I for one was a beneficiary of PPP loan forgiveness (not by my choice but an election of my managing partner). This at…

Especially since a) college didn't start getting so expensive until the government got involved in loans and grants, and 2) none of these people were forced at gunpoint to take these loans. By law, every little detail had to be disclosed to them prior to signing of docs and disbursement.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#33
post #28
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only you won't get it back, you're helping pay the cancellation.

Good. More smart people leads to better outcomes for everyone. Unless of course you're saying you demand an underclass?

Taking out a bad loan is not smart. Not being able to pay it back is not smart. We can argue whether this is good or not, but certainly these people are not smart or they would have solved the problem or avoided it in the first place.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#34
post #11
post #8

Is student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy?

Not in the US. As far as I know it is one of the very few forms of debt that cannot be discharged due to bankruptcy. If you're rich, you can run business after business into the ground and use bankruptcy to avoid paying your debts. Just want an education? Sorry, chum, you're on the hook forever.

You'll quickly get responses like "That was their moral failing for majoring in _____ which got replaced by _____, but if we made it dischargeable then banks would never give out money"

Of course if you really want to get the HN crowd up in arms fill in the blanks with "programming" and "AI".

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#35
post #11
post #8

Is student debt dischargeable in bankruptcy?

Not in the US. As far as I know it is one of the very few forms of debt that cannot be discharged due to bankruptcy. If you're rich, you can run business after business into the ground and use bankruptcy to avoid paying your debts. Just want an education? Sorry, chum, you're on the hook forever.

I think that George W Bush approved this policy shift on debt policy for student loans.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your intelligent career decisions won't insulate you from the under-educated voters putting a despot and charlatan into power. An educated populace is better for everyone.

Strongly disagree. Russia has 54% of people with higher education, compared to us at 44%. In fact, it's the most "educated" country in the world. Bet you didn't know that... Look at how that worked out for them. The value of education is greatly overstated. (and on the other hand people who claim education is soooo important for a good society conveniently pretend things like culture, religion, morals, etc don't exis…

You need quality education not just quantity. Degrees from some universities in some countries might not be worth anything because anyone can get them and many do just because they've been conditioned that having that piece of paper changes your life for the best, and so No-Name universities appear to cater to that market creating a "degree inflation" where too many people have degrees but they're worthless.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#37

Some thoughts: 1) Biden's polling numbers must be abysmal with key demographics if he's doing this 7 months out from the election. 2) This does nothing to solve the underlying problems which are that loans are handed out with absolutely zero check to see if they'll get paid back, and that they aren't dischargable in bankruptcy.

>1) Biden's polling numbers must be abysmal with key demographics if he's doing this 7 months out from the election.

What do you mean? This has been an ongoing thing throughout this term so it is weird to try and link it to poll numbers or the election.

>2) This does nothing to solve the underlying problems which are that loans are handed out with absolutely zero check to see if they'll get paid back, and that they aren't dischargable in bankruptcy.

You are right that it doesn't fix the main problem but it addresses a very real problem that millions of Americans are facing. We shouldn't put off addressing the latter because the former is still a problem.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I didn't have it good so the next generation shouldn't either." Student loans in the US are very predatory. This is a good step towards student loan reform, hopefully, and definitely a welcome boom for many struggling americans. Much better than tax cuts for people who have high incomes, for sure!

> This is a good step towards student loan reform I'd argue quite the opposite. By "fixing" the problem with half measures like this ensures the problem will continue.

Right. Until the schools start losing money, there is zero incentive for them to reign in costs. That doesn't mean I want to see people suffer under the burden of their loans but this program isn't solving the right problem.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#39
Two things on this one that I don't see elsewhere in the comments.

1) This is both a grab bag of many different forms of debt cancellation (automatically applying it to people who would qualify for programs that have complicated requirements otherwise, like public service which requires a lot of documentation to prove all the necessary years that may have been overly burdensome in some cases, largely worthwhile in my opinion since I support that underlying program anyway and support simplifying its formerly crazy complicated requirements vs for instance cancelling interest on loans that people didn't put a lot of effort into repaying, since most educational loans are at much lower interest rates than other loans to begin with). Not all of these can be discussed in the same terms and part of the "messaging" of the program is that they got to large numbers through many programs and many different avenues.

2) Notice that most of the wording of this press release is "if implemented", "if implemented" because this isn't a program that _has already happened_, it's a bunch of programs that have to individually go through Administrative Procedures Act notice-and-comment rulemaking. Interestingly, notice and comment has a lot of trivial pitfalls that block implementation, lead to litigation, etc, so on average for programs that do get implemented it takes something like 1000 days to implement (most of a presidential term). Further, there's a special period at the end of a legislative term where APA rules can be summarily overturned or cancelled mid-process by the incoming new Congress, and routinely are, particularly when there's a change of party either by Congress or in the Whitehouse. Which is all to say, this is a fun press release amounting to vaporware until 2027, assuming Biden gets re-elected and doesn't have a much stronger Republican majority in one or both chambers of Congress.

I approve of parts, I disapprove of parts, it's all very complicated, but I expect a very small part of this to actually happen, and that to mostly be the easier parts that I like more. shrug Bureaucracy delenda est.

Re: Biden Announces $7.4B in Student Debt Cancellation for 277,000 Americans

#40
post #27

Schools are not getting the feedback they need to be useful and political tricks like this further distorts the feedback loop. We should really take a few minutes to consider what this means for not just our future but our future generations. I think arguments that go along the lines of "I worked extremely hard to minimize my loans and now I felt betrayed" is missing the bigger evil lurking in the shadows: schools in…

> "out of all the things I can do, what should I be doing right now?" I mean aren't you really asking "What should I be doing X years from now"? If you're looking at your feet you're only going to notice you've walked up to the edge of a cliff moments before you get there. I mean, even with re-education you're taking long term training now in hopes it will work out in the future. So, pretty much you've said nothing i…

> I mean aren't you really asking "What should I be doing X years from now"?

For a person to answer what they should be doing X years from now, well, they first, need to be able to answer what they should be doing right now, very well.

> Is part of your great plan in making things better just unaliving these people?

That is quite a stretch.

Let us simplify things down a bit: on an individual basis, these subsidies are a few hundred dollars a month - which means that while that's nothing to scoff at, the recepients already have something else going on and making a living already. It might not be a great living but this subsidy isnt going to, for example, take someone destitute and homeless and put them in a position to become financially independent.

What would have stopped destitution and homeless would have been a better education. Now yes, there are well educated people who due to bad luck have become destitute and homeless but those are the exception, not the norm for well educated people to end up in.

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