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Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

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Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#31

Post by JohnBrookz »

parthianshotgun wrote: post #24
JohnBrookz wrote: post #12

Maybe I’m surrounded by the wrong people, but even amongst my educated peers their opinions are regurgitated. Not even from an interesting author but what they’ve seen online or in mainstream culture. The only exception being my contrarian friend but his opinions aren’t any more intelligent, just different. Has this really been any different since the dawn of modern propaganda though? The only difference is now we us…

Maybe you can start by asking the right questions

It’s hard. I think people get sucked into the matrix. I had a friend who was a really interesting person. Had well thought out beliefs and we used to talk about philosophy, politics and science.

Eventually she got a high paying, high stress high finance job and eventually she had no time to really think about things. Instead it was easier to repeat talking points she saw on the news and spend what little time she had enjoying her money. We still keep in touch but she actively isn’t interested in our old subjects as they’re too stressful to think about. It’s a fair point.

My coworker is reasonably decent engineer and intelligent person. His motivation in life is to just make money to feed his addiction to video games, gambling and drugs. We’re friends outside of work so I encouraged him to break away from his vices but to him there’s not much in the “real world”. It’s not entertaining, optimistic or fun so he plugs in after work.

I have a lot friends like these. The funny thing about the cave allegory is that in modern times the world outside of the cave is much more chaotic, hateful and scary.

Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#32

Post by autoexec »

ctchocula wrote: post #26
kromem wrote: post #18

I always find it so interesting when people are eagerly ready to adopt The Matrix as metaphor for whatever they don't like, but are often vehemently against entertaining it as a literal concept. 25 years ago I thought "that's neat" for a clever film twist. Much like the Sixth Sense. But then a few years later I read Nick Bostrom's op-ed in the NYT, and started considering the notion seriously. In the time since The M…

People don't use the metaphor literally because it doesn't make sense from a 2nd Law of Thermodynamics perspective. If the Matrix was created by AGI for thr sake of producing energy, it would make no sense at all to keep humans around in pods, because it costs them more energy to keep a human alive than what they get out of the human. The movie producers realized the problem in later movies and added some mumbojumbo…

> The movie producers realized the problem in later movies and added some mumbojumbo that they were keeping humans around for their neural networks, but that still requires the viewer to take it on faith.

I suppose it could just be a myth, but I always thought that was the original premise and it was hollywood execs who insisted on making the matrix about batteries on the assumption that audiences wouldn't understand the concept of neural networks.

see for example: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/19817/was-executiv...

Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#33

Post by autoexec »

hodgesrm wrote: post #27

> But in a strange way, the film has become more relevant today than it was in 1999. With the rise of the smartphone and social media, genuine human interaction has dropped precipitously. This is an interesting comment, because reading a book involves interaction with a text rather than other human beings. Yet we consider that (for the most part) a beneficial thing even though reading a thick book is kind of like put…

> The problem is more that social media are extremely addictive.

It's also constantly adapting to divide us and incite fear and anger because doing that drives engagement and it's accessed through devices which are designed to do the same thing. No matter how much of a page turner a book is, it's not popping notifications, tracking your location, learning from your habits, spying on your environment, hitting you with distractions when it detects you're most vulnerable, and preying on your insecurities etc. Books are much less harmful than social media for a lot of reasons, even if they don't involve you being social. Some people even like to be semi-social while reading. They'll go to parks, coffee shops, or libraries to read around others.

Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#34

Post by squigz »

jrm4 wrote: post #28
squigz wrote: post #7

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headline...

Oh, come on, no. Clearly this "law" is for clickbaity potentially-but-not-likely factual headlines, not ones that are obviously to some extent metaphorical.

> Oh, come on, no.

That's what I said!

Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#35

Post by squigz »

autoexec wrote: post #32
ctchocula wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't use the metaphor literally because it doesn't make sense from a 2nd Law of Thermodynamics perspective. If the Matrix was created by AGI for thr sake of producing energy, it would make no sense at all to keep humans around in pods, because it costs them more energy to keep a human alive than what they get out of the human. The movie producers realized the problem in later movies and added some mumbojumbo…

> The movie producers realized the problem in later movies and added some mumbojumbo that they were keeping humans around for their neural networks, but that still requires the viewer to take it on faith. I suppose it could just be a myth, but I always thought that was the original premise and it was hollywood execs who insisted on making the matrix about batteries on the assumption that audiences wouldn't understand…

This was the way I've always explained the battery thing. For a more lore-friendly reason, one could say the humans just don't really understand why the machines are keeping us alive, and so make the best guess they're using us literally as batteries.

Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#36

Post by chubot »

twojobsoneboss wrote: post #5

I have increasingly thought of this, how our current lives are ever more reminiscent of the matrix, being confined in our isolating community-less suburban “pods”, zombiefied on our phones, with no money or safety net to do much else, passing each day like the last

It is something on my mind too

But to be honest my parents’ generation had the same issue. In the 80’s we had neighbors we knew. I was babysat by a neighbor

In the 90’s, we moved, and didn’t know a single neighbor, and we lived there for years. I always wondered why, but I guess it’s because everyone was caught up with their job or school and whatnot

Even in the 90’s my experience was that most people and families were pretty self sufficient. It obviously depends on the person and the area though

A lot of it has to do with suburban architecture, or lack thereof

We weren’t stuck on our phones though. It could be worse now though - I remember >10 years ago before or during the google glass thing, talking about how people would be literally in virtual worlds while riding the subway and so forth

That hasn’t happened, despite the efforts of many companies

Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#37

Post by timschmidt »

zarathustreal wrote: post #29
pyinstallwoes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve always wondered how many truly unique brains are active at any given moment. How many words are parrots vs source?

The notion of source is an illusion. We’re all just echos of the physical processes that created us and perpetuate us.

Everything is a Remix (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9RYuvPCQUA), even people.

Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#38

Post by jj999 »

skywal_l wrote: post #13
peutetre wrote: post #2

> Agent Smith: "Have you ever stood and stared at it, marveled at it’s beauty, it’s genius? Billions of people just living out their lives, oblivious. Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world. Where none suffered. Where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost. Some believed that we lacked the programming language to describ…

> the peak of your civilization The more I think of it, the more I think this time was the actual peak of civilization (from a westerner's point of view). The Winter Olympics opening ceremony in Nagano in 98, when the world was singing the Ode to Joy was that peak moment for me [0]. After that, it went all downhill. [0] https://youtu.be/7aGNei01fzQ?feature=shared&t=6290

For a very long time I thought the peak moment was 2001-09-11, an instant before the first plane touched the first tower.

Edit: date

Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#39

Post by paulryanrogers »

jj999 wrote: post #38
skywal_l wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the peak of your civilization The more I think of it, the more I think this time was the actual peak of civilization (from a westerner's point of view). The Winter Olympics opening ceremony in Nagano in 98, when the world was singing the Ode to Joy was that peak moment for me [0]. After that, it went all downhill. [0] https://youtu.be/7aGNei01fzQ?feature=shared&t=6290

For a very long time I thought the peak moment was 2001-09-11, an instant before the first plane touched the first tower. Edit: date

Did you mean 2001-09-11?

Re: Are we all trapped in The Matrix 25 years later?

#40

Post by scheeseman486 »

The Matrix was about being trapped in a system.

In the film, the technology of the Matrix isn't intrinsically viewed as a terrible thing. The people of Zion use it to learn, to train, for pleasure and for work. What they're really fighting against is those who control the Matrix, who are using it to exert control through orchestrated cycles of violence. The enemy isn't even AI itself, most of the artificial intelligences are as much a slave to the system as the humans are.

Our failings aren't the fault of technology, though technology can exposes the failings in ourselves. It's easier to blame technology than people, though it's not like I don't relate. I've yelled at my computer before.

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