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If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

blog.codinghorror.com

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Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#31

Post by sumuyuda »

ignoramous wrote: post #23
jcgrillo wrote: post #16

This was actually not the conclusion I was expecting: > Don't bother improving your product unless it results in visible changes the user can see, find, and hopefully appreciate. I couldn't disagree more strongly. I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it. They're always bothersome, because now I notice the tool --it's no longer an extension of my mind and body, instead…

> I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it I mean, I am terribly glad we're done with Windows 95 and Android 4 style UX; aren't you?

I think 90s desktop UIs are probably the peek of usability. Once the UI trends went flat and minimal, usability has taken a huge hit.

I’d agree with the quote, every big UI rework has been controversial, see Windows Vista, Windows 8, and iOS 7. Even at an app level, developers will frequently refresh their UI, usually dropping features and making the software less useful.

Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#32

Post by fragmede »

ignoramous wrote: post #23
jcgrillo wrote: post #16

This was actually not the conclusion I was expecting: > Don't bother improving your product unless it results in visible changes the user can see, find, and hopefully appreciate. I couldn't disagree more strongly. I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it. They're always bothersome, because now I notice the tool --it's no longer an extension of my mind and body, instead…

> I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it I mean, I am terribly glad we're done with Windows 95 and Android 4 style UX; aren't you?

Can you be more specific? Win98 se sp2 was a golden age of computing for some.

Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#33

Post by jcgrillo »

ignoramous wrote: post #23
jcgrillo wrote: post #16

This was actually not the conclusion I was expecting: > Don't bother improving your product unless it results in visible changes the user can see, find, and hopefully appreciate. I couldn't disagree more strongly. I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it. They're always bothersome, because now I notice the tool --it's no longer an extension of my mind and body, instead…

> I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it I mean, I am terribly glad we're done with Windows 95 and Android 4 style UX; aren't you?

To be honest I think mostly nothing has substantially changed. Windows 95 isn't substantially different from Mac OSX 14 or Gnome or whatever. They're all the same clunky pointy clicky distracting paradigm where you have to memorize a bunch of visual rituals. The problem is that they change not which changes are "better" or "worse".

By contrast, emacs has improved dramatically from v26, to v27, 28, and now 29. It's gotten faster with things like tree-sitter and native compilation. LSP has been completely revolutionary. You know what hasn't changed? The UX.

Same thing with Android/iOS. The new features don't change the fact that the device is a terrible compromise. It's pretty bad at being a telephone compared to the actual phones which preceded it--for example, try making a phone call without looking at the device. With a physical number pad I used to be able to dial numbers with one thumb while driving, without looking at my phone. Try doing that with your "smart" phone.

It's also terrible at being a computer because it lacks a keyboard and any way to run normal computer programs--everything is these nerfed "apps". Why can't I have a shell, emacs, gcc, etc?

So, I guess no. I'm not glad, really. Neither Windows nor Android made anything fundamentally better for me. And incrementally polishing these turds doesn't either.

Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#34

Post by [deleted] »

nkrisc wrote: post #19
jcgrillo wrote: post #16

This was actually not the conclusion I was expecting: > Don't bother improving your product unless it results in visible changes the user can see, find, and hopefully appreciate. I couldn't disagree more strongly. I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it. They're always bothersome, because now I notice the tool --it's no longer an extension of my mind and body, instead…

I can tell you from personal experience on a UX team why it happens: The UI is designed for features A, B, and C. We design, test, revise design, test, and so on. There’s more thought and rigor that goes into than you might be thinking. Hurray, product launches, it looks good, and most importantly it works and users are successfully completing their tasks. Now what? Well at the company town hall meeting the CEO annou…

[deleted]

Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#35

Post by jcgrillo »

nkrisc wrote: post #19
jcgrillo wrote: post #16

This was actually not the conclusion I was expecting: > Don't bother improving your product unless it results in visible changes the user can see, find, and hopefully appreciate. I couldn't disagree more strongly. I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it. They're always bothersome, because now I notice the tool --it's no longer an extension of my mind and body, instead…

I can tell you from personal experience on a UX team why it happens: The UI is designed for features A, B, and C. We design, test, revise design, test, and so on. There’s more thought and rigor that goes into than you might be thinking. Hurray, product launches, it looks good, and most importantly it works and users are successfully completing their tasks. Now what? Well at the company town hall meeting the CEO annou…

Yes, I agree. When I've seen this happen the designers are never to blame, instead it's due to a lack of coherent product vision.

Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#36

Post by thih9 »

jcgrillo wrote: post #16

This was actually not the conclusion I was expecting: > Don't bother improving your product unless it results in visible changes the user can see, find, and hopefully appreciate. I couldn't disagree more strongly. I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it. They're always bothersome, because now I notice the tool --it's no longer an extension of my mind and body, instead…

What if it improves your experience with the tool? For example, the page that annoyed you because it would load 3 seconds now loads instantly?

This could be even not because of some flawed initial design, but due to unrelated technology advancements that are available just now.

Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#37

Post by mech422 »

sumuyuda wrote: post #31
ignoramous wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it I mean, I am terribly glad we're done with Windows 95 and Android 4 style UX; aren't you?

I think 90s desktop UIs are probably the peek of usability. Once the UI trends went flat and minimal, usability has taken a huge hit. I’d agree with the quote, every big UI rework has been controversial, see Windows Vista, Windows 8, and iOS 7. Even at an app level, developers will frequently refresh their UI, usually dropping features and making the software less useful.

I've gotta agree - the flat monotone crap ("material design" ??) makes it harder to figure out whats what, and (IMHO) looks worse (even though I love dark themes, I like dark themes with 3D)

Also, trying to minimize chrome to the point there's no place to grab a window to drag/position it and having windows snap/resize if you get too close to some magic point on the screen bug me!

Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#38

Post by tazu »

ReadCarlBarks wrote: post #27
binarymax wrote: post #11

There’s a flip side to this. If you change the UI for no reason, people get upset. For example, the latest iOS update flipped the speaker and mute buttons during a call. Why? No improvement was made, it’s just frustrating.

Mozilla-related forums are currently full of complaints about the new design of Thunderbird. It has also flipped the UI with no option of reverting it back other than using an unsupported CSS hack: https://i.imgur.com/9xzJjtr.png

That sucks but it's also hilarious someone thought that was an improvement.

Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#39

Post by jcgrillo »

Attummm wrote: post #24
jcgrillo wrote: post #16

This was actually not the conclusion I was expecting: > Don't bother improving your product unless it results in visible changes the user can see, find, and hopefully appreciate. I couldn't disagree more strongly. I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it. They're always bothersome, because now I notice the tool --it's no longer an extension of my mind and body, instead…

Your second point raises an important consideration about defining terms like "better." For instance: "The new UI is better." "This code is better." However, without clarification, "better" can be subjective and may simply indicate a difference rather than an inherent improvement. Considering the previous functionality of the UI/code, the new "better" version should demonstrate significant enhancements to be worth co…

Yes. The problem is the cost of the change often isn't suffered by the people making the change, and it's too easy to make changes.

Re: If You Don't Change the UI, Nobody Notices (2009)

#40

Post by nadagast »

jcgrillo wrote: post #33
ignoramous wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't think of the last time I encountered a UX change I thought was actually worth it I mean, I am terribly glad we're done with Windows 95 and Android 4 style UX; aren't you?

To be honest I think mostly nothing has substantially changed. Windows 95 isn't substantially different from Mac OSX 14 or Gnome or whatever. They're all the same clunky pointy clicky distracting paradigm where you have to memorize a bunch of visual rituals. The problem is that they change not which changes are "better" or "worse". By contrast, emacs has improved dramatically from v26, to v27, 28, and now 29. It's go…

I use and love emacs, but pointing to it as an example of how to evolve UX over time is indicative of your perspective. iOS/Windows/Android are used by the majority of people on the planet, emacs is not.

Which UX do you think young people today and in the future will most understand? iOS/Android or emacs? Why is that?

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