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Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

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Re: Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

#31

Post by noman-land »

PostOnce wrote: post #18
snvzz wrote: post #8

I'd rather one of the many open source alternatives to that ecosystem.

However, TIC-80 only exists because PICO-8 does, and without money, presumably PICO-8 couldn't've been made, the dude would have had to be doing other work to live. Previously this guy made Voxatron, which I imagine paid for PICO-8, and that presumably paid for Picotron, so if I don't buy Picotron, then perhaps I'll prevent his next work of art from coming to fruition? Yes it bothers me a little bit that PICO-8 itsel…

The pico-8 is very reasonably priced and for a few extra bucks you get Voxatron. I'm a huge advocate of open source but the pico-8 is just so lovely, and the community so creative and accommodating, that I didn't mind contributing. I have yet to check out the TIC-80 but I plan to after getting a little more fluent on the pico.

Re: Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

#32

Post by grimgrin »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #26
esbeeb wrote: post #25

When I use Raspberry Pi OS in a Raspberry Pi 4, 8GB of RAM - I feel I already have an excellent, refreshingly stable , late-90s-era experience. It scratches that strange nostalgia itch for that more innocent experience - of early-times WIMP computing. I can surf the web, edit LibreOffice files, record audio in Audacity on my nice Rode microphone, watch video files in VLC, remotely VNC in, transfer files in and out ov…

I used 8GB RAM till recently and I've found it more and more untenable. The primary issue is the browser. Even now on 16GB I restart Firefox every couple of days. But other things also eat RAM like crazy Running Emacs/Cider I'd have to kill other apps and reboot my REPL a couple times a day. Emacs would also leak memory and need a restart every couple of days

i wish firefox had more granularity with its tab unloading feature. one method is restarting browser. but by default it’ll unload tabs if you’re low on memory. you can force em in about:unloads (hint- about:about if you ever forget)

i wrote a simple firefox extension that unloads em all with a button click, but it’s no different than restarting ff or spamming clicks in :unloads

Re: Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

#33

Post by rob74 »

bitwize wrote: post #15

It's a sign of the fact that personal computing has gone way, way off the rails that we make pretend computers to run on our real computers just to have fun ways to compute again. I really really appreciate work like this, but why aren't our actual operating systems "cozy" enough to support creative work anymore?

Remember the days when all home computers came with a BASIC interpreter preinstalled, and that was the first thing you saw when you started the computer? Later generations (Amiga, Atari ST) also had BASIC included with the OS. Not that familiar with the original Apple Macintosh, but from what I read that was the first computer to ship without programming tools. Windows then followed suit, and today all OSes ship without developer tools by default. Of course they're just a download away, but those are mostly tools for professional developers, so not really beginner friendly.

Also, the limitations of 8 bit (and 16 bit) computers also made them more approachable. I "designed" some cool-looking sprites (actually they were called "players") on my Atari 800 back in the day, although I'm not good at drawing, so I would be hopeless at producing something more hi-res...

Re: Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

#34

Post by persnickety »

contrarian1234 wrote: post #26
esbeeb wrote: post #25

When I use Raspberry Pi OS in a Raspberry Pi 4, 8GB of RAM - I feel I already have an excellent, refreshingly stable , late-90s-era experience. It scratches that strange nostalgia itch for that more innocent experience - of early-times WIMP computing. I can surf the web, edit LibreOffice files, record audio in Audacity on my nice Rode microphone, watch video files in VLC, remotely VNC in, transfer files in and out ov…

I used 8GB RAM till recently and I've found it more and more untenable. The primary issue is the browser. Even now on 16GB I restart Firefox every couple of days. But other things also eat RAM like crazy Running Emacs/Cider I'd have to kill other apps and reboot my REPL a couple times a day. Emacs would also leak memory and need a restart every couple of days

12GiB and copious swap. 4 profiles open with 50-100 tabs loaded at any time.

The only problem is the accumulation of CPU use from web apps.

Consider adding more swap space so that older tabs have an out-of-the-way place to stay.

Re: Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

#35

Post by jhbadger »

noman-land wrote: post #31
PostOnce wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However, TIC-80 only exists because PICO-8 does, and without money, presumably PICO-8 couldn't've been made, the dude would have had to be doing other work to live. Previously this guy made Voxatron, which I imagine paid for PICO-8, and that presumably paid for Picotron, so if I don't buy Picotron, then perhaps I'll prevent his next work of art from coming to fruition? Yes it bothers me a little bit that PICO-8 itsel…

The pico-8 is very reasonably priced and for a few extra bucks you get Voxatron. I'm a huge advocate of open source but the pico-8 is just so lovely, and the community so creative and accommodating, that I didn't mind contributing. I have yet to check out the TIC-80 but I plan to after getting a little more fluent on the pico.

But TIC-80 just is so much better than PICO-8. Not just the resolutions (which people can argue are an aesthetic choice for PICO-8) but the fact that you aren't limited to lua but have a variety of languages (some Lisp inspired) in TIC-80.

Re: Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

#36

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

rob74 wrote: post #33
bitwize wrote: post #15

It's a sign of the fact that personal computing has gone way, way off the rails that we make pretend computers to run on our real computers just to have fun ways to compute again. I really really appreciate work like this, but why aren't our actual operating systems "cozy" enough to support creative work anymore?

Remember the days when all home computers came with a BASIC interpreter preinstalled, and that was the first thing you saw when you started the computer? Later generations (Amiga, Atari ST) also had BASIC included with the OS. Not that familiar with the original Apple Macintosh, but from what I read that was the first computer to ship without programming tools. Windows then followed suit, and today all OSes ship with…

Linux comes with Python included. (Python is the new BASIC, and explicitly designed to be so.)

Re: Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

#37

Post by cxr »

esbeeb wrote: post #25

When I use Raspberry Pi OS in a Raspberry Pi 4, 8GB of RAM - I feel I already have an excellent, refreshingly stable , late-90s-era experience. It scratches that strange nostalgia itch for that more innocent experience - of early-times WIMP computing. I can surf the web, edit LibreOffice files, record audio in Audacity on my nice Rode microphone, watch video files in VLC, remotely VNC in, transfer files in and out ov…

> 8GB of RAM [...] late-90s-era experience

Not even close.

Re: Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

#38

Post by presbyterian »

jhbadger wrote: post #35
noman-land wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pico-8 is very reasonably priced and for a few extra bucks you get Voxatron. I'm a huge advocate of open source but the pico-8 is just so lovely, and the community so creative and accommodating, that I didn't mind contributing. I have yet to check out the TIC-80 but I plan to after getting a little more fluent on the pico.

But TIC-80 just is so much better than PICO-8. Not just the resolutions (which people can argue are an aesthetic choice for PICO-8) but the fact that you aren't limited to lua but have a variety of languages (some Lisp inspired) in TIC-80.

Having such specific limits is exactly the point of PICO-8 though. If I wanted a variety of options, I’d be using a more traditional engine or library.

Re: Picotron Is a Fantasy Workstation

#39

Post by kqr »

PostOnce wrote: post #4

Pico-8 was and is one of the most pleasant pieces of software I have used. I can only imagine the wonders the community will produce for this thing. Of course, despite the machine itself (pico 8 that is, and this thing too) being proprietary, all the user-programs are source-available if not open source. It's really educational and I love it. There will be compatible implementations of this thing, but the pico-8 tool…

Can you – or someone else – write about why Pico-8 is so much better than other fantasy consoles? In particular, I've been intrigued by WASM-4 recently, and someone else mentioned TIC-80 which also looks good. I remember reading about Pyxel and getting inspired. All three of those have the benefit of being free, so why would I pay for Pico-8?
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