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LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

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Re: LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

#31

Post by bombcar »

YWall39 wrote: post #27
svat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then the LuaTeX devs moved their efforts to LuaMetaTeX and I found myself scratching my head. This makes sense: They're essentially “done” with LuaTeX; it works fine and is distributed with TeX Live; it's up to others to use it. Many people are in environments (submission to journals that insist on pdfTeX etc) where they cannot use LuaTeX; the LuaTeX developers cannot change that. (It has minor differences from TeX…

can I add a third class. - those who need latex+dvips+ps2pdf and if you ask why, 2 packages: psfrag and pstricks.

I'm just happy I can compile thirty year old documents.

Re: LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

#32

Post by fnands »

cbolton wrote: post #6

> Yes, we are aware of typst. I think it’s cool, but C++ hasn’t replaced C, Rust hasn’t replaced C++, Typst is unlikely to replace LaTeX. Likewise, many are aware of LuaTeX, but, again, the entrenching of a 40-odd year system is not to be underestimated. I am rooting for typst, anyway, and hope it finds its place. Well here's the process I went through in the last few years: I found out about LuaTeX, saw it was suppo…

> The author is a PhD student that has been using LaTeX heavily for 10 years. But what should a new student use, and why? When the only reason to choose LaTeX is old colleagues and gatekeeping publishers, I know it's a matter of time.

From what I have seen, it's Overleaf.

Do newer students know or care what flavour of Tex Overleaf uses in the background? Not as far as I have seen.

Re: LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

#33

Post by bscphil »

AlanYx wrote: post #14
cbolton wrote: post #6

> Yes, we are aware of typst. I think it’s cool, but C++ hasn’t replaced C, Rust hasn’t replaced C++, Typst is unlikely to replace LaTeX. Likewise, many are aware of LuaTeX, but, again, the entrenching of a 40-odd year system is not to be underestimated. I am rooting for typst, anyway, and hope it finds its place. Well here's the process I went through in the last few years: I found out about LuaTeX, saw it was suppo…

Typst is exciting, but I wish their roadmap would prioritize features in common use in LaTeX like microtype rather than niche new features like style revocation.

Yeah, I'm curious if anyone with experience has comments on the typography quality of Typst, or whether that's even a focus at this point in time. There are a million document languages (DocBook, AsciiDoc, Markdown+extensions, LaTeX, etc etc) but LaTeX has the foothold it does (other than academic entrenchment) because of the output quality.

I sometimes use Typst as an intermediate renderer with Pandoc, but for my highest quality work I insist on features like protrusion. I was using LibreOffice just yesterday and actually had to check multiple times whether there was a space at the beginning of the line because the lack of protrusion support meant unsightly visual gaps.

Re: LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

#35

Post by bombcar »

rrgok wrote: post #8

I still wonder why anyone would create such awful grammar for a programming language. Considering LaTeX's initial release was 40 years ago, there were certainly other programming languages from which to draw inspiration. And I certainly don't believe that LaTeX DSL was the most suitable solution for solving typesetting problems.

LaTeX grammar makes much more sense when you spend some time using raw TeX with no macros at all - it's surprisingly capable on its own and the LaTeX becomes much more obviously "slight improvements".

Many things people think of as LaTeX are actually just TeX.

Re: LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

#36

Post by cbolton »

crotchfire wrote: post #30
cbolton wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not faked. I guess the nix recipe does things differently from the official binary. Try yourself: https://github.com/typst/typst/releases/download/v0.11.0/typ... But it's true that when I tried ldd on a trivial static binary (compiling "int main() { return 0; }" with "gcc -static a.c") I got a different message: "not a dynamic executable". I don't know why you'd get sometimes one message sometimes the other...

Having to use magically-blessed (what you call "official") binaries is not a viable strategy either.

Come on, it's a really good strategy if you care about this (use the official binary, or make the effort of making a static binary yourself).

And even your linked binary will probably work in 10 years, these libraries are not likely to break. See for example https://superuser.com/questions/1450027/how-exactly-a-system...

I couldn't say the same thing about the LaTeX binaries:

  $ ldd /usr/bin/pdflatex
 linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007ffe347f7000)
 libpng16.so.16 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpng16.so.16 (0x00007e699d5bf000)
 libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1 (0x00007e699d5a3000)
 libkpathsea.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libkpathsea.so.6 (0x00007e699d587000)
 libstdc++.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6 (0x00007e699ce00000)
 libm.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6 (0x00007e699d4a0000)
 libgcc_s.so.1 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007e699d47e000)
 libc.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007e699ca00000)
 /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007e699d624000)
libpng, libz, libkpathsea, libstdc++ are much more likely to break than glibc.

  $ ldd /usr/bin/lualatex
 linux-vdso.so.1 (0x00007ffe4f8d6000)
 libtexlua53.so.5 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libtexlua53.so.5 (0x00007eccb87c1000)
 libzzip-0.so.13 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libzzip-0.so.13 (0x00007eccb9392000)
 libpng16.so.16 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpng16.so.16 (0x00007eccb8786000)
 libharfbuzz.so.0 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libharfbuzz.so.0 (0x00007eccb86b7000)
 libz.so.1 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libz.so.1 (0x00007eccb9376000)
 libkpathsea.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libkpathsea.so.6 (0x00007eccb8699000)
 libm.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libm.so.6 (0x00007eccb85b2000)
 libgcc_s.so.1 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgcc_s.so.1 (0x00007eccb8592000)
 libc.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6 (0x00007eccb8200000)
 libglib-2.0.so.0 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libglib-2.0.so.0 (0x00007eccb8458000)
 libfreetype.so.6 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libfreetype.so.6 (0x00007eccb8138000)
 libgraphite2.so.3 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libgraphite2.so.3 (0x00007eccb842f000)
 /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 (0x00007eccb93c5000)
 libpcre.so.3 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpcre.so.3 (0x00007eccb80c2000)
 libbrotlidec.so.1 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libbrotlidec.so.1 (0x00007eccb80b4000)
 libbrotlicommon.so.1 => /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libbrotlicommon.so.1 (0x00007eccb8091000)
no comment

PS: you could edit your previous comment and/or apologize for accusing me twice of forgery.

Re: LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

#37

Post by miguelmurca »

fnands wrote: post #32
cbolton wrote: post #6

> Yes, we are aware of typst. I think it’s cool, but C++ hasn’t replaced C, Rust hasn’t replaced C++, Typst is unlikely to replace LaTeX. Likewise, many are aware of LuaTeX, but, again, the entrenching of a 40-odd year system is not to be underestimated. I am rooting for typst, anyway, and hope it finds its place. Well here's the process I went through in the last few years: I found out about LuaTeX, saw it was suppo…

> The author is a PhD student that has been using LaTeX heavily for 10 years. But what should a new student use, and why? When the only reason to choose LaTeX is old colleagues and gatekeeping publishers, I know it's a matter of time. From what I have seen, it's Overleaf. Do newer students know or care what flavour of Tex Overleaf uses in the background? Not as far as I have seen.

"Typst Overleaf" sounds like a fine business idea to me, if you give the user the option to export TeX (so that they can then submit it to a journal).

(If you support both LaTeX and Typst, and improve the Overleaf experience somewhat -- which is definitely possible -- I can't imagine you wouldn't steal some market share from Overleaf.)

Re: LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

#38

Post by bombcar »

miguelmurca wrote: post #4
bmacho wrote: post #2

> It’s weird I even have to say this, but don’t stalk me and email me at my personal address. I am not sure of what happened, and it must have been unpleasant, but someone going up on your website hierarchy, they reach https://commutative.xyz/~miguelmurca/ , they click the only link, and you personally list your profiles there, including email, github and insta. It is OK if someone contacts you for whatever reason on…

Hey, hope you enjoyed the article itself. I'm sorry if you felt that addendum was aggressive. However, I still feel like I'm justified in making it absolutely clear how (and if) I want to be contacted. I am in a complicated position where I'm speaking to a niche -- not an imaginary niche, by any means -- but actually addressing every reader. In the face of this, my option was to clearly state my boundaries, regardles…

The sentiment you have is fine, but if you really wanted to you could rewrite it like this:

If you wish to contact me by email, by all means do so to miguelmurca+autoref [æt] cumperativa.xyz - I may not be able to respond. If I don't please don't try to find other emails to send to me, as I'll not respond to those, either, and just delete them. This post is in English. If you wish to write me, please do so in English. Other languages will be deleted.

(The key is assholes won't read it anyway, so there's no reason to snark them, just delete.)

Re: LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

#39

Post by michaelmior »

> Yes, it’s $YEAR and we’re still producing PDFs. Again, historical reasons plus the fact that most people doing maths are not necessarily very interested in computers.

I generally find PDFs to be a very agreeable way to read the sort of content LaTeX is typically used to write. And in writing it myself I don't need to think about what weird layout issues someone else might encounter when viewing my content. There are certainly accessibility issues with PDFs, but also ways to mitigate that[0].

[0] https://libguides.lib.msu.edu/c.php?g=995742&p=8207771

Re: LaTeX3 Automatic Labels for Fun and No Profit

#40

Post by jonhohle »

venice_benice wrote: post #18
wdroz wrote: post #7

> Yes, we are aware of typst. I think it’s cool, but C++ hasn’t replaced C, Rust hasn’t replaced C++, Typst is unlikely to replace LaTeX. Likewise, many are aware of LuaTeX, but, again, the entrenching of a 40-odd year system is not to be underestimated. I am rooting for typst, anyway, and hope it finds its place. A good place to start would be to provide a compilation toolchain from typst to TeX, if they really want…

pandoc is seriously under-powered for the kinds of things that LaTeX and Typst can do. Much of the information in Typst/LaTeX source code would simply be ignored during the conversion. It is fine for simple documents, but cannot handle a lot of stuff.

Pandora offers a superset of LaTeX and any other markup languages as long as you’re not using it for final rendering. I have a Markdown+LaTeX project I’m working on and try to write mostly in markdown, but can drop down into LaTeX in-line if need be. I compile a tex file with Pandoc and render with pdflatex, bibtex, makeindex, etc., etc.
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