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After five years I discovered why my network goes down (2020)

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Re: After five years I discovered why my network goes down (2020)

#31
post #10
post #4

I used to have a dell vostro notebook that every time I logged into the network with windows, it would drop every other device on the wifi. Funny thing, is that if I used linux, the router would be alright and not collapse. Never found out the reason. In the end I divorced the wife and she got that notebook. Wifi is weird.

That seems like a pretty extreme solution to that problem.

Its the right amount of solution IMO.

Re: After five years I discovered why my network goes down (2020)

#32
I had (probably still have) a similar-ish problem. I have an old nVidia Shield handheld that I bought a wired ethernet adapter for. Something about that adapter would kill my network dead after a random interval. It took a while to figure out what device was causing it, and unplugging the adapter would instantly cause the network to come back to life. I never figured out what the root cause was, I just stopped using the adapter.

Re: After five years I discovered why my network goes down (2020)

#33

That post has provided no proof this is indeed a MAC address conflict issue, and as other comments suggest even an actual MAC address duplicate should only cause connectivity issues for said MAC address and no other devices. MAC addresses belong to the NIC and not the machine, and while the OS can override them, it won't do so without express user intervention. I'm especially skeptical of the Ethernet MAC being a dup…

> I'm not sure who is at fault

It's the people who thought Ethernet Pause was ever a good idea.

I've only seen it lead to tears. In all of the situations I've run into, it would be better to drop packets that are arriving too fast to handle than to try to fix it up by trying to do flow control. Ethernet is unreliable, and packet loss is the overload signal; PAUSE changes overload from drop to buffer, and then you end up with problems with overlarge buffers. In addition to things like where a multi-queue nic has one queue overloaded and sends PAUSE, which results in starvation for the other queues; or PAUSE getting broadcast over a switch when it shouldn't have been, etc.

Re: After five years I discovered why my network goes down (2020)

#34
post #3

I've experienced a similar situation where a USB-C hub would bring down everything connected to the switch, but only when it was disconnected from the laptop. No clue how this stuff makes it out of the factory...

I mean, why would you possibly have a hub connected to the switch if it wasn't connected to the laptop? Surely, nobody would ever disconnect their laptop and leave all of the other devices connected waiting and ready for the laptop to be reconnected at a later time. That's such an edge case that it could never have been thought of as a normal thing to test against. Only weirdos take their laptops away from a desk environment. What are they gonna do, use it on their laps?

Re: After five years I discovered why my network goes down (2020)

#35
Apple has this "feature" called Bonjour Sleep Proxy whereby which certain stationary devices like an Airport AP, HomePod or AppleTV will impersonate your Mac when it goes to sleep, so f you want to access a service on it, e.g. stream music from it, the other device acts as a proxy, sends a WoL packet to the Mac and passes the MAC back to it. Needless to say, this often plays havoc with poorly coded routers or switches with wonky ARP or bridge MAC to port lookup tables.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonjour_Sleep_Proxy

Re: After five years I discovered why my network goes down (2020)

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Macintoshes "remember" the most recent IP they were given on a network rather than always doing a DHCP. It's one of the reasons given for why people say Macs "feel better" e.g. you sit down in a room with a friend who has a Dell. Your Mac gets WiFi almost immediately while they have to wait a few seconds even though both of you have been on this network before. One of the benefits of owning the stack all th…

Except that it breaks other people in busy networks. Fuck everyone else my WiFi feels good.

IIRC it keeps the IP address for as long as the DHCP lease is valid, whereas Windows will do a full DHCP request on every reconnect. That's perfectly valid behavior, and DHCP servers should not delete reservations before the lease expires - which doesn't stop some particularly shoddy implementations from doing so. Cheap SOHO routers tend to not persist leases on the flash to not use up NAND rewrite cycles, so they reset everything upon reboot.

Re: After five years I discovered why my network goes down (2020)

#37

My experience: 95% of all network problems are dodgy cables. The other 5% is dodgy switches. The switches one is a bear to debug. I just tossed out two old switches, because I wasn't sure which one was the one that polluted the network. I could have spent several hours, setting up little sandboxes, but it was easier just to toss them both, and get new ones.

I just retired some 3com 1900 series 1gbps switches for my home lab. Only problems I've had with them were those dell docks I mentioned corrupting arp tables requiring a full network reboot to resolve but it also could be reproduced on Cisco and Dell switches so there's that. HP still fully warranties the damn things to this day.

Re: After five years I discovered why my network goes down (2020)

#38

That post has provided no proof this is indeed a MAC address conflict issue, and as other comments suggest even an actual MAC address duplicate should only cause connectivity issues for said MAC address and no other devices. MAC addresses belong to the NIC and not the machine, and while the OS can override them, it won't do so without express user intervention. I'm especially skeptical of the Ethernet MAC being a dup…

That's the one that killed my network every evening when I stopped working. My MacBook would go to sleep, with a Dell DA310 plugged in, and serving as its network connection.

I would go on a walk and every time the missus would call me to tell that the network is down again...

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