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Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

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Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#31
post #5
post #2

Is anyone more knowledgeable able to interpret the paper beyond ‘brain waves wash toxins’? Are they actually responsible for the observed activity, or do they merely trigger some ‘flushing’ mechanism inherent to the cells? Or, are the waves a result of that process?

I can't find free access to the full paper, but here's the abstract (afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough to add to or explain any of it): " The accumulation of metabolic waste is a leading cause of numerous neurological disorders, yet we still have only limited knowledge of how the brain performs self-cleansing. Here we demonstrate that neural networks synchronize individual action potentials to create large-amplitud…

>Chemogenetic flattening of these high-energy ionic waves largely impeded cerebrospinal fluid infiltration into and clearance of molecules from the brain parenchyma.

Sounds like unsync'd brain waves, (being awake) impedes cerebrospinal fluid flow through the brain.

When asleep, neurons sync their action potentials, acting like a ionized fluid pump, moving old dirty cerebrospinal fluid out, and allowing new, clean in.

Interestingly, when they synthesize that type of ionization using other means, they saw the same increase in fluid movement.

This is my best attempt at translating. Hopefully within 1-2 football fields. The author leaves choice of American or the rest of the world to the reader to decide.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#32

That's a really interesting scientific finding. From a personal experience, once I closed my eyes and actually observed this phenomenon. I could observe many spherical waves of light each pulsating, and not only that but I could feel the effect of each wave viscerally. It definitely felt healing. I wasn't sure what this was, was it the vibes of meditators around the world? Maybe this research finding is what I was ob…

Are you perhaps describing phosphenes?

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#33
post #8

So garbage collection is not such a bad idea after all...

1/3 of compute time spent on garbage collection is pretty inefficient!

Only in f it's exclusively for GC.

If it's opportunistic GC, then it's simply running when nothing else is.

IOW, we may need the sleep for a different reason, and that is when the load is low enough to allow the GC to run.

Assume that we can trigger this while awake. This doesn't mean that we don't need to sleep for some other reason.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#34
post #5
post #2

Is anyone more knowledgeable able to interpret the paper beyond ‘brain waves wash toxins’? Are they actually responsible for the observed activity, or do they merely trigger some ‘flushing’ mechanism inherent to the cells? Or, are the waves a result of that process?

I can't find free access to the full paper, but here's the abstract (afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough to add to or explain any of it): " The accumulation of metabolic waste is a leading cause of numerous neurological disorders, yet we still have only limited knowledge of how the brain performs self-cleansing. Here we demonstrate that neural networks synchronize individual action potentials to create large-amplitud…

[deleted]

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#35
post #4
post #2

Is anyone more knowledgeable able to interpret the paper beyond ‘brain waves wash toxins’? Are they actually responsible for the observed activity, or do they merely trigger some ‘flushing’ mechanism inherent to the cells? Or, are the waves a result of that process?

Wouldn’t it be cool if we could periodically trigger waves like this to refresh the brain and maybe require less (or no) sleep! I have no expertise in this area I’m just a dreamer :)

That's been in use for thousands of years already: yoga, pranayama and meditation.

There are courses one can take where one learns this, like Art of Living and any other that follows the same traditions.

Yes, there's research on that, and new studies should absolutely gain from this study. Not entirely sure you'll observe the same effect, that depends on meditator, but you can fall asleep during practice.

I have over a decade experience with it, and have also participated on a study on breathing exercises and epigenetic effects from that versus blind control.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#37
post #3

More details at Washington Univ' site: https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/neurons-help-flush-waste-out... Could not find any free access to the paper, even though the Univ' says "This work was supported by the National Institutes of Health (NIH); the BJC Investigators Program at Washington University; and the Neuroscience Innovation Foundation." These kind of grant funded research should be accessible at the least from…

Checked and it was published through Nature: Jiang-Xie, LF., Drieu, A., Bhasiin, K. et al. Neuronal dynamics direct cerebrospinal fluid perfusion and brain clearance. Nature 627, 157–164 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07108-6 Every Uni should have access through your library system.

I think the point was that every member of the public should have access to publicly funded research at least through the university's website, rather than at least everyone currently in universities should have access.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#38
post #3

More details at Washington Univ' site: https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/neurons-help-flush-waste-out... Could not find any free access to the paper, even though the Univ' says "This work was supported by the National Institutes of Health (NIH); the BJC Investigators Program at Washington University; and the Neuroscience Innovation Foundation." These kind of grant funded research should be accessible at the least from…

Checked and it was published through Nature: Jiang-Xie, LF., Drieu, A., Bhasiin, K. et al. Neuronal dynamics direct cerebrospinal fluid perfusion and brain clearance. Nature 627, 157–164 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07108-6 Every Uni should have access through your library system.

Yes, it was published through Nature.

But what stops Univ' site to have original research paper available for download? Nature magazine is just a distribution channel (they did not sponsor the research so should not have exclusive rights on it).

Left college long time ago; and do not have access to any library system.

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s this one I just found - [ https://player.vimeo.com/video/370150539?background=1](https...

That one is the default google answer, but not the one I saw. Mine had a spine attached and there was no highlighting, the fluid movements were distinguishable in the scans. Thank you for trying.

this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8cgZn3aW3o

or this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPEOviBqr_c

EDIT: also

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=785729915751081

Re: Brain waves appear to wash out waste during sleep in mice

#40

We need to figure out what activity or thought creates waves most similar to the cleaning function. Maybe it’s dreaming? Dreaming by my experience is tedious and not restful… I have 4-6 dreams every night and never feel like I’m truly asleep. Shouldn’t be hard to figure out with an EKG and a decent graph to see what your aiming for.

meditation
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