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Gamification is not entirely bullshit

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31–35 of 35 posts

Re: Gamification is not entirely bullshit

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I've been reading it all is because I'm writing my thesis on it :) I haven't spent too much time with Khan Academy, so can't say too much about it. There are two things to keep in mind: 1. Extrinsic motivation erodes intrinsic motivation. The most obvious example is asking a kid to take out the trash. Once you pay him/her, they'll only do it for money again. While this example is silly because no-one has a…

For me, Stack Overflow's most rewarding feedback is social recognition for having been helpful, which is largely independent of the formal rewards it offers. I bet it's the same for a lot of other people too.

Yes, pretty much. The other open question is what Stack Overflow would be if they removed the reputation system entirely.

The literature on motivation from people that subscribe to self-determination theory indicates I think they would mostly prefer the system gone. Any reward system you put in place is bad, it's just there are certain degrees of bad.

My gut tells me that Stack Overflow has benefitted from the reputation system as another explicit feedback on how well you are doing. I think the badges are largely unimportant, save for being a more fun way of saying "here's what you can do on the site" than another tedious FAQ. If the badges were important, then we head down a nasty extrinsic motivation road. I think it's done better with the rep system than without.

That said, I sometimes wonder how many people are put off by the built-in competitive aspect of Stack Overflow; any writing you do is evaluated and measured against others. For competitive people that end up bumped down all the time, that seems like it would be disheartening, for social people always been graded it might be disheartening too. The winner-takes-all set up, rather than, say, a wiki answer that people are constantly tweaking, seems like it could be problematic. I know that I stopped bothering answering questions very quickly as I felt I had no mastery of the art, other people were getting the upvotes, so I felt like my answers were largely ignored.

Re: Gamification is not entirely bullshit

#32
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing as you seem to be well-read in the area - what's your opinion of the "gamification" on khanacademy?

Based on going through nearly the entire Khan math test graph, I can say that the thing that was great was the instant feedback that the problems give you. For those not familiar, you need to get many questions right in a row to move. These problems are generated along with "hints" specifically tailored to the problem - as-in the problem is worked step-by-step for you as you click "hint". What was also great is that…

I certainly do need to interact with Khan Academy more often, I need to brush up on my probabilities for technical interviews this summer, so I'll use that as a step into the product.

FWIW, having seen Salman Khan speak, it's hard not to be swept up with his cause. He's a man on a mission, and if anyone has the vision and charisma to pull off Khan Academy's goals, it's him.

Re: Gamification is not entirely bullshit

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on going through nearly the entire Khan math test graph, I can say that the thing that was great was the instant feedback that the problems give you. For those not familiar, you need to get many questions right in a row to move. These problems are generated along with "hints" specifically tailored to the problem - as-in the problem is worked step-by-step for you as you click "hint". What was also great is that…

I certainly do need to interact with Khan Academy more often, I need to brush up on my probabilities for technical interviews this summer, so I'll use that as a step into the product. FWIW, having seen Salman Khan speak, it's hard not to be swept up with his cause. He's a man on a mission, and if anyone has the vision and charisma to pull off Khan Academy's goals, it's him.

I think an important distinction is also that the purpose of the math test graph is to specifically quantify prior learning (ie. it provides a reasonably realistic measurement of learning) -- this is not gamification necessarily. The badges are gamification. Our goal should be realistic and effective quantification of learning/improvement (passive feedback that generally increases intrinsic motivation), rather than implementing external motivators or artificial targets (which badges typically are).

Re: Gamification is not entirely bullshit

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the vast majority of people work is always a chore. It's a commodity you use to barter with your employer; in exchange you receive money that allows you to live. You argue that sometimes work is "fun". I think a more accurate description is that work can sometimes be engaging. Like when you're presented with a problem that's right at the edge of your abilities but not out of reach. Yet it's still work. Unlike pla…

Play is a frame of mind, not a contractual relationship. If it weren't, nobody would take mmorpgs seriously, and they do; the consequences may not involve your paycheck but it's harsh when you let your team down. Playfulness shows up at work all the time, although not necessarily in ways that promote the bottom line. Play mindsets can be encouraged in the workplace when they don't emerge spontaneously. Whether those…

> Play is a frame of mind

It's more than that. The environment matters. Real play is risk free. You can do whatever you want and there are no consequences. This is not true for work.

At the end of the day business doesn't want their employees to treat work as play; they just want them to be more engaged while at work. But instead of looking at why their workers are disengaged they hire people who set up cute little games and contests and tell people to pretend they're not actually working. Which is all well and good until somebody drops the ball and they get fired. Whoops. Sorry Bob. I guess you didn't understand we weren't actually playing after all.

Gimme a break. Gamification is just bullshit newage snakeoil.

Re: Gamification is not entirely bullshit

#35
At dinner the other night, our five year old and his five year old friend wouldn't eat their broccoli--until I told them that broccoli was worth 2000 points. The points had no reward attached, other than getting "points", and making sure the other guy didn't have more imaginary points.
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