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The Forgiver's Dilemma: Can Letting Go Set You Free?

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Re: The Forgiver's Dilemma: Can Letting Go Set You Free?

#31

Post by cardanome »

It is fine to cut out people that betray your trust. You don't owe anyone to give them a second or third chance.

If it is a minor thing and you think they can change and you are willing to keep trusting them, sure forgive them. Otherwise either change or cut your relationship to a new level of trust that expects them to do what they have done once.

The only mistake is holding grudges while keeping the relationship. That is unhealthy. You shouldn't feel bad for cutting out people. And you don't have to forgive. You just have to accept what happened, act accordingly and maybe stop dwelling on it. Acceptance does not need to be forgiveness.

Re: The Forgiver's Dilemma: Can Letting Go Set You Free?

#32

Post by bennettnate5 »

The introduction poses a bit of a false dilemma--there's a third, unmentioned choice:

3. Forgive the individual who has wronged you for their past actions, without continuing the relationship.

Forgiving someone for a wrong action they've committed is too often conflated with restoring that person to an identical position of trust and closeness in your life. Forgiveness is about letting go of the past--it doesn't mean you also are obliged to recommit to a future.

Choosing to put a person back in the same level of trust as that of a stranger is not holding a grudge. Choosing to end a relationship is not holding a grudge. It is simply a reversion to the mean--one that could lead to rebuilding a relationship of trust, or not.

Re: The Forgiver's Dilemma: Can Letting Go Set You Free?

#34

Post by wccrawford »

bennettnate5 wrote: post #32

The introduction poses a bit of a false dilemma--there's a third, unmentioned choice: 3. Forgive the individual who has wronged you for their past actions, without continuing the relationship. Forgiving someone for a wrong action they've committed is too often conflated with restoring that person to an identical position of trust and closeness in your life. Forgiveness is about letting go of the past--it doesn't mean…

I went through this with an online friend. I understand why they were like they were, but I couldn't let them continue to be that way around me.

Years later, we're talking again, and I think it'll be okay this time. It'll never be the same, but at least it's not nothing.

Re: The Forgiver's Dilemma: Can Letting Go Set You Free?

#35

Post by zer00eyz »

Forgiveness Letting go.

The idea that these two things are so deeply tied feels very cultural (western? christian?).

The parable of the two monks and the woman springs to mind as the best example of breaking the link between letting go and forgiving. If you dont know the parable see: https://www.alphahome.org/two-monks-and-a-woman/

Trying to map this issue onto the prisoners dilemma is reductive in a way that makes good content and bad advice. Walking away and letting go is a viable option, and depending on the circumstance might be better for the aggrieved party.

Re: The Forgiver's Dilemma: Can Letting Go Set You Free?

#37

Post by reidjs »

lfmunoz4 wrote: post #19

I don't really understand forgiveness. Unfortunately many situations are you have 1 chance and if you mess up it there is absolutely no way to reverse the type of relationship that was created. For example if you are wronged as a child from parent. Yes later as an adult you can "forgive" (whatever that means) but then you are not a child anymore, so it is just not the same. You needed that parent as a child as an adu…

I like the new-ish expression for holding a grudge as letting the person "live rent-free in your head." They have wronged you in the past, but it's rarely worth regularly spending mental energy ruminating about it. Easier said than done of course.

Re: The Forgiver's Dilemma: Can Letting Go Set You Free?

#38

Post by WhitneyLand »

travisgriggs wrote: post #8

To start with, I really enjoyed Veritaseum’s recent take on the “Prisoners Dillema” and Game Theory ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM ). It seems appropriate to mention since it circles around this same “dillema” and even places a numerical value on the value of forgiving in game theory simulations. The historical part and layman’s reduction is good to. I think THIS article undersells the “Hold a Grudge” pa…

>>relationships have a bargaining element?

Yes, generally understood to be true in psychology.

>>if we forgive, we fear it devalues or weakens our bargaining power

I can’t argue your personal experience, but I don’t think this one is major theory or something generally accepted to be true about forgiveness.

>>Why else are we so tempted in a debate to rejoin with “yeah, well you do too

Because “whataboutism” is just a logical fallacy that people use as a common defensive tactic, but it’s not inherent to forgiveness.

Re: The Forgiver's Dilemma: Can Letting Go Set You Free?

#39

Post by munificent »

lfmunoz4 wrote: post #19

I don't really understand forgiveness. Unfortunately many situations are you have 1 chance and if you mess up it there is absolutely no way to reverse the type of relationship that was created. For example if you are wronged as a child from parent. Yes later as an adult you can "forgive" (whatever that means) but then you are not a child anymore, so it is just not the same. You needed that parent as a child as an adu…

> For example if you are wronged as a child from parent.

It is equally true that when a parent does not wrong a child, that can't be erased either. Everything that has actually happened is carved in stone in terms of material history.

What is mutable is our interpretation of that past.

> You aren't "holding" onto anything you can accept they did their best it just wasn't good enough and there just isn't any way to "reverse" that and change your childhood.

It sounds like you are holding onto the idea that there is some alternate timeline you could have lived, some superior, irreplaceable childhood that has been take from you.

You're not wrong. But the amount of time you spend ruminating on that fact and deciding what it says about who you are today is largely under your own control.

> there just isn't any way to "reverse" that and change your childhood.

There isn't any way to reverse anything in life. The only thing we have any agency over is in which direction you go forward.

Re: The Forgiver's Dilemma: Can Letting Go Set You Free?

#40

Post by czl »

ldd wrote: post #5
bradley13 wrote: post #3

Forgiving someone makes sense, if you believe they honestly made a mistake, or if they are willing to change their future behavior. Forgiving does not make sense, if it just gives a narcissist another shot at you. "Fool me once..." We have neighbors like that. We wanted to believe the best of them, and let them get away with crap 2 or 3 times. You don't have to be mad at people like that, you just have to realize tha…

From the article: Forgiveness means letting go of anger and resentment towards someone who wronged you. It doesn’t mean forgetting what happened or saying it was okay. You can always forgive and never trust, or trust less. Or even forgive and never speak to the person that you forgave. So exactly like you did with your neighbours. Sounds perfectly healthy to me.

> Forgiveness means letting go of anger and resentment towards someone who wronged you. It doesn’t mean forgetting what happened or saying it was okay.

Assuming that definition why would one ever not "forgive"? What this advice in essence says is "be logical and do not let intense feelings drive your decisions".

There is a variant of this advice involving positive feelings such as "do not let the positive feelings you may have towards a charismatic sales person drive your purchase decisions / your positive feelings towards a charismatic politician drive your voting" or better still "do not let an intense infatuation cause the ruin your marriage (cheating) / ruin of your career (work place relationship) / ruin of your life (unwanted pregnancy / child)"...

Again what this advice in essence says is "be logical and do not let intense feelings (both good or bad) drive your decisions".

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