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Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

newyorker.com

31–40 of 191 posts

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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> Paradise in comparison Let's not host the tragedy Olympics here. You don't need to glamorize the terrors faced by the people of North Korea just to augument your criticism of the U.S.

I don't think GP understood just how bad NK prison camps are, either. They're Holocaust-level bad. To say they're "paradise" in comparison to anything is ignorant at best.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoeryong_concentration_camp

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#32
post #29
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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>"But they let themselves be led" People never "let themselves". They are owned by leaders that represent certain elites / thugs and do what they're told or else. West did not become "free" because common people suddenly revolted against the kings and pried away their piece of cake.

Oh right, revolutions never happened. Also, Czechia never got rid of the commie stranglehold.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#34
post #30
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, poor people are better off in absolute terms than 200 years ago. No one is denying this. The question is more that, given how prosperous we are, and how much capital we have at our disposal, why do we still have so many poor people? Why is income inequality so bad?

>Yes, poor people are better off in absolute terms than 200 years ago Not than poor people 200 years ago, than kings 200 years ago. No king of early 1800s could have tropical fruits, antibiotics or an entire library of human knowledge at his fingertips. >Why is income inequality so bad? Does a burger taste any worse if you know someone's having caviar? Also, how would you compare today's wealth inequality with that o…

> Does a burger taste any worse if you know someone's having caviar?

Human beings have a fine-tuned sense of inequality and injustice; it's one of the things that makes us self-legislating agents, rather than beasts scrabbling for the top. The burger absolutely does taste worse if you know that it isn't a fair representation of the value of your labor.

To make this more salient: your argument would apply to people living under repressive regimes as much as it does to content Westerners sitting at home. Or do you think that North Koreans in China have no right to object, given that their equivalent domestic forced labor would be even worse?

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#37

Absolutely incredible reporting. The risks taken by the sources both at the factories and within North Korea defy comprehension for anybody lucky enough not to fear that speaking out will endanger their family.

Indeed. And beyond the interviews, there is plenty of other examination of direct evidence including videos posted to social media, shipping records, packing labels.

That evidence all supports the argument that the PRC and Chinese companies are complicit in violating sanctions.

Further, it is telling that the NK government and their Chinese co-conspirators actively fight investigations. See the literature spread to workers threatening punishment for talking to reporters.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#38
post #36

Absolutely incredible reporting. The risks taken by the sources both at the factories and within North Korea defy comprehension for anybody lucky enough not to fear that speaking out will endanger their family.

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Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#39
post #25
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>all that's broken at the moment in our end-stage capitalist societies That's a weird way to spell "the most prosperous time/space ever, where borderline poor people live like kings 200 years ago, and there are fewer and fewer poor people as time goes on and poverty threshold goes up".

Yes, poor people are better off in absolute terms than 200 years ago. No one is denying this. The question is more that, given how prosperous we are, and how much capital we have at our disposal, why do we still have so many poor people? Why is income inequality so bad?

Multiply 30000 a year (a lower end US wage) by the number of people living in what the UN defines as poverty. That’s about two billion. You get 60 trillion dollars a year. That’s close to world GDP.

If you gave that out and those two billion people tried to spend it, you’d just get hyperinflation because there isn’t enough supply to match that demand.

We have a lot of abundance but not that much. Still fewer people as a percentage live in poverty by far than at any time in human history. It’s mostly going in the right direction. We’ve lifted a billion out of poverty in the last 20 years.

Re: Inside North Korea's Forced Labor Program

#40
There needs to be a law that, for any kind of Chinese seafood to be imported, foreign officials must be allowed to inspect the conditions. They already do it for food safety.

When espionage laws make other monitoring impossible, there can be zero trust in these companies to do the right thing. Allow detailed, random inspections, or your imports are blocked and you make no money.

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