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ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

tomshardware.com

31–40 of 136 posts

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#31

Time to spread some liberty and freedom in the Netherlands.

The US is not far from doing that. See the Hague Invasion Act.

Also I've been wondering why our Prime Minister has been so enthusiastically following US foreign policy lately. Turns out he's eyeing the NATO boss seat, and the US has the most important vote.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#34
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stability and long product lifecycles are incredibly important to them. They're pretty much the opposite of move fast and break things or deploy early/deploy often.

Try searching how much money is lost by clients if the fab is down. You have to be very careful with software for fabs.

Honestly, if you think about the availability guarantees that these FAB's have to deliver, I'm kinda surprised they don't run off of IBM mainframes. Can't believe it but it would be a perfect use case. High bandwidth I/O, paired with ungodly, over-the-horizon-radar like availability.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, thank you for link. I was expecting the opposite from this company, but for some reason, after reading this, I'm not surprised at all.

They are physicists and hardware folks, right? I would expect messy code written by convoluted processes for nightmare applications, that somehow works.

Bro if they're not using Linear and having AI write their PRDs then they are Bad At Software.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#36
post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

Tbc, based on the comment that looks to be driven almost completely by the fact that they are making a tiny number of incredibly expensive bespoke machines, so they can't just keep extra machines lying around to do unit tests with (both because each machine is expensive, and because the results wouldn't necessarily generalize to other machines). So it sounds like a constraint of the field, not bad choices.

The build taking 8 hours doesn't seem to be consequence of the field they are operating

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#37
post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

Tbc, based on the comment that looks to be driven almost completely by the fact that they are making a tiny number of incredibly expensive bespoke machines, so they can't just keep extra machines lying around to do unit tests with (both because each machine is expensive, and because the results wouldn't necessarily generalize to other machines). So it sounds like a constraint of the field, not bad choices.

Why do you need the actual production machine for unit tests? Why can't you build a SW simulator for them and run unit tests on them?

I used to work in automotive and all unit tests didn't require the finished car, just the SW.

Nasa doesn't hava another Voyager probe in their lab floating around in zero gravity to run unit tests on before sending the SW patches, they use simulators.

For calibration you do need the final production HW, but unit tests shouldn't, so maybe there's a confusion here about the type of tests ran.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#38

Time to spread some liberty and freedom in the Netherlands.

The US is not far from doing that. See the Hague Invasion Act. Also I've been wondering why our Prime Minister has been so enthusiastically following US foreign policy lately. Turns out he's eyeing the NATO boss seat, and the US has the most important vote.

Also that's what we do since WW2. We are a close ally of the US, use US weapons, usually follow them in foreign policy. So not very surprising imo.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#39
post #3

Relevant HN comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18463181 Apparently their software development processes are terrible.

I've lived in NL for a while, few years, changed few companies, it's a place where processes are more important than actual code quality, where people stay in the same job for 10-15 years and everything below that is seen as a bad thing, people is hired for the culture primarily, having awareness of software principles is really worthless. I ran away as the last company I interviewed with, after solving a coding puzzle in 30 seconds, finishing in 15 mins something which had to take 45 mins, asked "Are you available to come at the office on Friday for company parties?". So I can only have nightmares about software practices in NL companies

I've seen files with 13k lines of if/else/switch, how do you test that shit .-.

Re: ASML dethrones Applied Materials, becomes largest fab tool maker

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tbc, based on the comment that looks to be driven almost completely by the fact that they are making a tiny number of incredibly expensive bespoke machines, so they can't just keep extra machines lying around to do unit tests with (both because each machine is expensive, and because the results wouldn't necessarily generalize to other machines). So it sounds like a constraint of the field, not bad choices.

Why do you need the actual production machine for unit tests? Why can't you build a SW simulator for them and run unit tests on them? I used to work in automotive and all unit tests didn't require the finished car, just the SW. Nasa doesn't hava another Voyager probe in their lab floating around in zero gravity to run unit tests on before sending the SW patches, they use simulators. For calibration you do need the fi…

to do finite element analysis on the (nanometer) scale of processes/manufacturing they do - heh.
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