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The US over-reliance on incarceration is lazy and cruel

obviatethestate.substack.com

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Re: The US over-reliance on incarceration is lazy and cruel

#31

Post by jquery »

anonporridge wrote: post #12
zabzonk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or higher taxes on the rich?

The combined total net worth of all US billionaires would pay for about 8 months of US federal spending...once. Also, wealth isn't just in the form of money. A culture that produces few criminals is a form of wealth that can't be captured by taxes.

A infinitesimal fraction of the population could pay for our entire government for 8 whole months? Sign me up. You could even leave every one of them with a billion dollars and still not change the math.

Re: The US over-reliance on incarceration is lazy and cruel

#32

Post by breather »

anonporridge wrote: post #2

Like all high morality, more advanced rehabilitation methods and/or more pleasant segregation of criminals from law abiding members of society, is a privilege of wealth. The richer we collectively are, the more resources we can devote to managing counterproductive individuals more humanely. The poorer we are, the more likely we have to resort to more barbaric methods of order maintenance, like execution. Therefore, i…

Really makes you wonder why courts don't push for poverty reduction in the name of crime reduction.

Re: The US over-reliance on incarceration is lazy and cruel

#35

Post by dfedbeef »

actionfromafar wrote: post #11
bryanlarsen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Penalty length has very little effect on crime motivation. The most important factor is the likelihood of getting caught. You want to see crime rates drop? Shift a large percentage of the prison budget to the police.

Aren't some prisons for-profit?

Boy howdy, they sure are. Judges end up taking bribes to send people to them too! What a country.

Re: The US over-reliance on incarceration is lazy and cruel

#37

Post by lolyyy2 »

henryreynolds wrote: post #23
tqi wrote: post #13

> Mr. Cassidy could face $250,000 worth of penalty (excluding fines) for $1,500 worth of crime. To state that the reason the maximum is 5 years is because the item was religious in nature, then ignore that fact when calculating the cost of the offense tells me this person is starting from a conclusion and working backwards. By this methodology, conspiracy to commit murder should get no jail time since the "cost" is $…

You're absolutely right that the sum harm inflicted is greater than the cost to repair the altar. There's a certain point where trying to calculate ephemerals loses the thread. For the inconvenience, missed opportunity, and emotional damage, I'd look to tort law. The entire matter could be resolved through civil suit without incarceration, and I'd rather see the victim whole than the criminal suffer.

> For the inconvenience, missed opportunity, and emotional damage, I'd look to tort law.

How would that work in this case? The Catholic church should sue the guy on behalf of their members?

Re: The US over-reliance on incarceration is lazy and cruel

#38

Post by zabzonk »

anonporridge wrote: post #12
zabzonk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

or higher taxes on the rich?

The combined total net worth of all US billionaires would pay for about 8 months of US federal spending...once. Also, wealth isn't just in the form of money. A culture that produces few criminals is a form of wealth that can't be captured by taxes.

i said "rich", not "billionaires". agree on your other points though.

Re: The US over-reliance on incarceration is lazy and cruel

#39

Post by kjkjadksj »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #7
slt2021 wrote: post #3

typical champagne socialist post. just look at Oakland and see if lax on crime policies work.

Penalty length has very little effect on crime motivation. The most important factor is the likelihood of getting caught. You want to see crime rates drop? Shift a large percentage of the prison budget to the police.

More police doesn’t change what crimes the county prosecutor decides to pursue and enforce. Unfortunately what should be an unbiased role has been politicized in recent years. Its not a great idea to have someone involved in the justice system running overtly on party line politics but thats our political environment today.

Re: The US over-reliance on incarceration is lazy and cruel

#40

Post by giantg2 »

anonporridge wrote: post #2

Like all high morality, more advanced rehabilitation methods and/or more pleasant segregation of criminals from law abiding members of society, is a privilege of wealth. The richer we collectively are, the more resources we can devote to managing counterproductive individuals more humanely. The poorer we are, the more likely we have to resort to more barbaric methods of order maintenance, like execution. Therefore, i…

"The richer we collectively are, the more resources we can devote to managing counterproductive individuals more humanely."

Just because richer societies can devote more resources doesn't mean they want to, or will.

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