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Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

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Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#31

Post by Loughla »

loeg wrote: post #13
spiderice wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I live in Utah and have a heat pump and gas furnace. I am told the heat pump is really efficient at medium-cold temperatures, but not so much on really cold days.

I believe heatpump technology has improved over time. Also, "less efficient but still functional" is an adequate option for really cold days.

Less efficient but still functional means my home was 50 degree inside instead of 67 when it was -1 for two weeks here.

On older homes, with much worse insulation, this would immediately be a problem.

Heat pumps are great, but they absolutely need some kind of emergency heat back up.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#32

Post by Mountain_Skies »

danans wrote: post #8

A big issue right now is the oversizing of heat pumps by HVAC contractors who are used to sizing gas furnaces using very simple btu/hr/sqft calculations. A contractor should do some kind of heating need analysis, at the least by studying old utility bills, and ideally by doing a Manual J heat loss calculation for the house. But almost none of them do that. There are some startups attempting to handle these design ste…

Other than higher cost for the heat pump unit, are there any other issues with having one that's oversized for heating? My understanding is that for cooling, having one that is oversized can be a problem because of humidity issues, which also makes me wonder what can be done if a space has an imbalance between the size needed for cooling versus what it needs for heating.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#33

Post by [deleted] »

danans wrote: post #8

A big issue right now is the oversizing of heat pumps by HVAC contractors who are used to sizing gas furnaces using very simple btu/hr/sqft calculations. A contractor should do some kind of heating need analysis, at the least by studying old utility bills, and ideally by doing a Manual J heat loss calculation for the house. But almost none of them do that. There are some startups attempting to handle these design ste…

[deleted]

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#34

Post by dkasper »

mikeyouse wrote: post #23
vundercind wrote: post #2

> Death is coming for the old-school gas furnace—and its killer is the humble heat pump. Uh, you still need a furnace (though it could be electric) if you live somewhere that ever really gets cold, right? [edit] I mean, seeing it presented as a furnace replacement is weird to me. I’ve always seen it sold as an air conditioner replacement that also happens to heat (with weird characteristics that often confuse people—…

> Uh, you still need a furnace (though it could be electric) if you live somewhere that ever really gets cold, right? For now - and only in part of the country. Most of the newest models can output 100% of their rating down to something like -5ºF -- they're easy enough to oversize as well, so if your 99% heating load is e.g. 48,000BTU, a 60,000BTU heat pump that's only outputting 80% of rated BTUs due to the extreme…

i think this explains the oversizing. 76% seems pretty good, but a lot of places do get to negative temperatures once in a while, maybe once every year or two, and that’s when you really want the heat to work.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#35

Post by jzawodn »

mrpopo wrote: post #27
chankstein38 wrote: post #25

Thank you, that's all I really cared about but I had "read my last free article" so I couldn't even find that out. I'm so tired of the internet.

I want a "Netflix of information". Let me pay 30€/month for unlimited information access, quality, no clickbait and no ads. Of course, seeing what happens with Netflix now, I guess it wouldn't last long until things turn back to the old way...

I guess that's sort of the value proposition of Apple News+ if you're in their ecosystem, right?

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#36

Post by vundercind »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #28
mikeyouse wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Uh, you still need a furnace (though it could be electric) if you live somewhere that ever really gets cold, right? For now - and only in part of the country. Most of the newest models can output 100% of their rating down to something like -5ºF -- they're easy enough to oversize as well, so if your 99% heating load is e.g. 48,000BTU, a 60,000BTU heat pump that's only outputting 80% of rated BTUs due to the extreme…

I like the redundancy of natural gas. So far, in less than 40 years, I have been kept warm for multiple days on 3 separate occasions by having access to gas while the electricity did not work. Also, I was able to keep cooking. One of the states in the article is Oregon too, where I have family that just a few weeks ago lost electricity for 4 days, but were able to use an electric generator to keep the air handler goi…

Yeah if my heat were 100% electric I’d have to install a wood heating-stove to feel like I wasn’t being irresponsible. Or maybe get a couple portable kerosene heaters.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#37

Post by sev1 »

chankstein38 wrote: post #25

Thank you, that's all I really cared about but I had "read my last free article" so I couldn't even find that out. I'm so tired of the internet.

You can read it on Ars: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/02/these-states-are...

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#38

Post by 01HNNWZ0MV43FF »

adastra22 wrote: post #4
vundercind wrote: post #2

> Death is coming for the old-school gas furnace—and its killer is the humble heat pump. Uh, you still need a furnace (though it could be electric) if you live somewhere that ever really gets cold, right? [edit] I mean, seeing it presented as a furnace replacement is weird to me. I’ve always seen it sold as an air conditioner replacement that also happens to heat (with weird characteristics that often confuse people—…

Heat pumps are still more efficient, but you’d need damn good insulation (or a really big heat pump) in super cold weather. Furnaces scale-up pretty well on the other hand. If your locale gets life threateningly cold though, I’d feel more comfortable with a furnace because of the fewer moving parts. Burn gas, get heat, dead simple.

Funny enough in the short term I've lived in my house, I already had a winter where the furnace quit.

It's a high-efficiency one with a control board (Nobody can convince me FCS isn't Fire Control System) and a separate draft motor.

One of the vacuum sensors went out and the furnace couldn't prove it was safe to run, so it would turn on the draft motor, suspect a clog, and then shut it back off.

An easy fix but not as simple as lighting a Bunsen burner. And I haven't seen the electrical cord for it, I'm not sure how I would hook it to a generator if I lost power. The water heater oddly enough is battery-powered, so I guess I could just fill the tub with hot water.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#39

Post by rconti »

Bay Area, just beginning a remodel+expansion of our home. We've never had air conditioning, and our gas furnace is well over 20 years old. We'd likely need to upsize the furnace anyway, and for resale reasons if nothing else, adding A/C (and the attendant larger ducts or whatever else) is a no-brainer while we have the house apart.

A heat pump is absolutely a no-brainer in our case. I like being able to get away from natural gas, although I must say, moving all electric means we'll be held hostage more and more to PG&E. (We have solar, but it'll be well below our needs once we had square footage and the heat pump, and don't want to get screwed by NEM 3.0).

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#40

Post by [deleted] »

mrpopo wrote: post #27
chankstein38 wrote: post #25

Thank you, that's all I really cared about but I had "read my last free article" so I couldn't even find that out. I'm so tired of the internet.

I want a "Netflix of information". Let me pay 30€/month for unlimited information access, quality, no clickbait and no ads. Of course, seeing what happens with Netflix now, I guess it wouldn't last long until things turn back to the old way...

[deleted]
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