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Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

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Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have experience with Ruby on Rails? I've built apps both with Elixir/Phoenix and with Rails. Yes, the Elixir/Phoenix stack is amazing and is definitely superior over Rails in several ways; however, with regards to Bootstrapping and releasing a real-world app/business (web based), Rails is still the king.

I just don't understand this, the ergonomics are about the same. Phoenix was inspired by Rails and Elixir by Ruby, after all. I've also worked with both and I'd say it's a match in terms of productivity.

I love Elixir and the productivity is probably real, but one big thing I've learned as a senior dev was reflected well in a recent HN post

> Take the road most documented

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39165328

Rails likely has an advantage of documentation given its age and all the major mature businesses using it like Shopify.

A lot of newer languages have documentation/blog posts that's heavily centered around starting out with a new project vs all the bugs with existing Github issues/stackoverflows and design considerations of the framework and 3rd party plugins being fully fleshed out.

Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#32
I love Elixir, but I have to disagree with the principal aspect of this post.

As an engineering leader what I look for when picking tooling for SaaS which essentially boils down to two things:

  1) How expensive and difficult will it be to scale the Org.
  2) How difficult will it be to implement product features.
I attempted an Elixir startup and found that it failed at both. The language was lovely to use and very smart.

But at the end of the day, you spend time and money reinventing solutions already solved in other frameworks which distract from the features of your product. Elixirs libraries are growing, but they have not reached parity to near drop-in solutions found in Django for instance.

Is Django the fastest in code execution? No. Is it the most elegant? No.

But there is an outstanding catalog of existing solutions and libraries out there that a junior engineer can pull from.

Developer velocity is so much faster with a well established framework. Easy to hire for. And you spend time implementing product features instead of reinventing engineering solutions. My ideal product development workflow is to implement in Django, find the bottlenecks (if any) and then specialize those flows.

Elixir is great and beautiful, but it was much more difficult to find engineers with experience in it. I really only found engineers that had a curiosity to use it or just started using it. I was never able to find an engineer that I could hire who built and scaled a Unicorn level app with it. Something quite common to find with Django.

I'm not saying to use Django. But when starting a project, I just ask that people look at how hard it will be to find someone to help you in the future and decide if you want to spend time building product value or spend time writing beautiful code.

Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#33
post #28

i have to be honest: as a lover of the language, and with due respect to the author, i’m really tired of these “why i picked elixir” takes extolling the same virtues (or some subset thereof) we’ve seen written up in darn near every introductory article on elixir for the last five or six years. it’s not that i think they’re wrong, at all. it’s just that they add nothing new to the conversation, they’re superficial, an…

Long story short from a business perspective - good luck logistically scaling a dev team from 2 founders to 100 devs as quickly as your app does. Elixir devs are hard to find and are expensive.

Do you need 100 elixir devs? Or do you need 2 elixir devs and 98 developers?

Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#34
post #23

i have to be honest: as a lover of the language, and with due respect to the author, i’m really tired of these “why i picked elixir” takes extolling the same virtues (or some subset thereof) we’ve seen written up in darn near every introductory article on elixir for the last five or six years. it’s not that i think they’re wrong, at all. it’s just that they add nothing new to the conversation, they’re superficial, an…

Maybe it was true 6 years ago, but I'm currently playing with Elixir/Phoenix and I feel very productive, Phoenix is well design and adding new functionalities is not that hard and the code is easy to debug. On the other side, Elixir and Erlang are not that popular and every time I talk about it to other developers, they may have heard of it but can't talk about it, so it's probably not that easy to find devs for a st…

(EDIT: To clarify, my comment is only a response to "not that easy to find Elixir devs for a startup")

---

I don't speak for anyone except myself and a few acquaintances but I wouldn't accept an offer to work on a startup with Elixir unless we're talking at least $15,000 a month or more. And even then it depends a lot on team and company culture. I am tired of sprinting without that ever being connected to me getting extra cash or even recognition.

Elixir and Phoenix are productive as hell but they also need deliberate approach and not everything should be done quickly. Requiring me to churn out 3-5 features a week in the first 6 months is the best way for me to hand my resignation a mere two weeks after starting.

Sorry, you might not have had this in mind, I am just reacting to your text.

But rest assured, ElixirForum has quite a few people who would grab an Elixir job if given the opportunity, some for as low as $2500 a month even. And most people frequenting the forum mostly check its own Jobs section. So if you really want to widen your options, definitely make a job ad post there.

Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#35

I love Elixir, but I have to disagree with the principal aspect of this post. As an engineering leader what I look for when picking tooling for SaaS which essentially boils down to two things: 1) How expensive and difficult will it be to scale the Org. 2) How difficult will it be to implement product features. I attempted an Elixir startup and found that it failed at both. The language was lovely to use and very smar…

That resonates.

I’ve heard it this way: it’s not the language it’s the leverage.

Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#36
post #28

i have to be honest: as a lover of the language, and with due respect to the author, i’m really tired of these “why i picked elixir” takes extolling the same virtues (or some subset thereof) we’ve seen written up in darn near every introductory article on elixir for the last five or six years. it’s not that i think they’re wrong, at all. it’s just that they add nothing new to the conversation, they’re superficial, an…

Long story short from a business perspective - good luck logistically scaling a dev team from 2 founders to 100 devs as quickly as your app does. Elixir devs are hard to find and are expensive.

Elixir devs are quite easy to find if you post a job ad on ElixirForum.

Another good thing about Elixir is that the odds of you actually needing 100 devs coding in it are close to zero. I've been in financial EU startups that moved tens of millions a month (they were not huge) with the grand total of 4 devs. The only problem was clearing up customer requirements (i.e. our product people dropped the ball and left us doing most of their work).

And expensive? Yeah but I wouldn't be against that if I was an informed business owner. Most Elixir devs are refugees from other tech stacks and are quite senior. Good talent should be compensated well.

Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#37

i have to be honest: as a lover of the language, and with due respect to the author, i’m really tired of these “why i picked elixir” takes extolling the same virtues (or some subset thereof) we’ve seen written up in darn near every introductory article on elixir for the last five or six years. it’s not that i think they’re wrong, at all. it’s just that they add nothing new to the conversation, they’re superficial, an…

That's micro-shortsightedness. Lots of tools even OS utilities are being rewritten in a "better" language. It could be quite beneficial from a business perspective too if you're spending more time fixing issues than addressing new requirements.

That really depends though. Part of the time you are right but there are legitimate businesses settings where not shipping by the end of next week can mean missing out on much-needed $50K or so revenue.

Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#38
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

honestly these sorts of sentiments (in the link) remind me of the "lisp gives you enlightenment, lisp is the language of gods" etc. that we've heard for decades. I love lisp, but come on, gods?

Have you seen lisp? To understand even a bit if that you’d have to be god level. Not that gods don’t make mistakes. But I kind of see where they’re coming from.

> Have you seen lisp? To understand even a bit if that you’d have to be god level.

Are we talking about parenthesis here again?

It's easy to understand a well written Lisp codebase once you are familiar with its concepts. What you can't do is try to read it when all your prior programing exposure is from, say, the Algol language tree.

Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#39
post #26
post #13

Disclaimer: Elixir is extremely productive, Phoenix is outstanding, the community is world-class, and as a result of the Erlang VM / OTP / Beam you can remove whole parts of your traditional webstack. If you haven't tried it I cannot recommend it enough. But! As a long-time Elixir Developer who has gladly used it to bootstrap many applications and companies, I have to say I think this article is actively harmful to t…

> requires any kind of offline-enabled features Considering it requires a server this is kind of a given right?

I am not your parent poster but I would interpret their comment as:

If you need offline mode you are better off disabling / removing the LiveView machinery in your Phoenix project.

Re: Why Elixir Is the Best Language for Building a Bootstrapped, B2B SaaS in 2024

#40
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/06/things-you-should-...

Remember when they rewrote their app and blogged about it? I do! https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2002/04/11/our-net-strategy/

It was a (slow) migration, though, not a rewrite from scratch. They kept shipping software.
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